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2004 Saturn Vue Missing

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  #1  
Old 11-09-2012 | 07:37 AM
blacknblue#2's Avatar
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Default 2004 Saturn Vue Missing

Hey guys i have a 2004 Saturn Vue 2.2 4cyl 5spd. 185000 Miles. Owned it since 30k. Oil changed every 3k and plugs changed every 50k. The car has recently produced a miss but not all the time. It mainly does it at low RPMS when the motor has a load on it. for example shifting into 2nd and getting back on the gas or coming out of a turn and gettin back into it. Once the car gets up above 2500-3000 rpm it straightens up and runs awesome. I been tryin all the cheap possible stuff first. New AC delco plugs didnt fix....clean the throttle body, no fix...tried fuel additive, no fix. Here is the odd part that i didnt even know was possible. The check engine light come on so i went to 5 different places trying to read the code....Everyone says its not throwing a code for them to read. What else could i try. The car is driveable and its graduated to my work car now with the wife gettin a new ride so i dont wanna spend a bundle on something that may only have 15000 miles left in it but i would like to get rid of this aggravating miss haha
 
  #2  
Old 11-09-2012 | 08:29 AM
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Long distance where touch and feel are important to diagnosing things, that is a tuffy. But if it was mine I would be suspicious of the ignition considering the miles on the car. What in the ignition? Dunno, you have tried plugs and the odds are if the ones you removed did not look as if they were problems, replacing them probably would do nothing and that is what you said happened.
But symptom recognition is important. The key I guess would be what they looked like before they were replaced.
That said and done to my way of thinking a spark plug wire sounds like it could be a culprit and they are not expensive to just shot gun. Although again visual appearance is also an indicator. Looking for damage to them is important. Something that would look as it would cause the spark to jump to a piece of metal rather than the spark plug. Cracks in the wire or boot or just damage. A measurement if you do not know what it should be using and ohmmeter would be in the area of 10,000 ohms per foot of wire. I would want to make that kind of measurement before I replaced them just to see if anything close to that exists.
That is not an exact number and it may not be correct, but what ever one wire measures due to it's length the other 3 should be similar. But that would be my expectation.
I also can make a compression test measurement and while I have the plugs out to change I would want to measure compression. That tells me what is going on more or less with each cylinder. What do I expect to see? Something about 110# per each cylinder with some variance from one to another. And if one is low, squirt some oil in the spark plug hole and measure again. If the pressure reading increases it indicates a problem with the rings. If it makes no change and stays low it is indicative of a problem with a valve.
Again how important is the exact level of 110#? On the whole it is not. The engine has as you say 185,000 miles on it.
It stopped being new a long time ago.
If one of the cylinders was twice as much I would be surprised and i would suspect that I did something wrong OR the other 3 have a problem.
If one of them was half as much I would suspect that one has a problem.
There for I would expect a nominal reading of about 110# and if something reads below 90 I would get suspicious that the cylinder with that reading has some form of a problem.

But these are measurements I would make because I have the tools.
It would be nice if yhou can measure it or have a friend with the tools.
Or and this is a novel concept. Use this instance as an excuse to buy them. Harbor freight has a $9.00 multi meter that when on sale goes for about $2.00. They are about as good as they come when it comes to test meters.
And I have one that I paid $460.00 for.
A compression gauge, a basic one is probably the cost of a 24 pack of beer and far more useful. You may only use it once in your life, but if it keeps you from spending more money on parts and services you do not need, it just paid for itself.
 
  #3  
Old 11-09-2012 | 10:52 AM
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Thanks John...I guess there is alot of stuff i left out in the first message i was kinda in a rush. When the problem first occured the plugs had around 40k on them. When i pulled them out #3 cylinder plug had the electrode that sticks out of the porcelein burnt off.. Immediately thought thats my problem. Put new plugs in and it helped the problem but didnt fix it. I build racing quads so plug reading to me is like clockwork when i pull them out. Its nothing for me to run through 15 plugs on a single cylinder engine trying to get correct jetting. I drove the car about 3 days and pulled the new plugs back out for a reading...All 4 plugs were spot on. Laid across the table you would swear they were all out of the same hole. But like i said above 3000 RPM this motor dont miss a lick. I have an ohm meter and a compression gauge. BUT this car dont have plug wires. it has 4 boots that connect the plugs to a black ignition box that is held snug onto the boots by 4 10mm bolts at the valve cover...I should have added the boots were replaced too. Is there any way to check that iginition box??
 
  #4  
Old 11-10-2012 | 07:51 AM
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From: Peoria AZ
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My Vue Data stops at 2003 and frankly is more than a bit sparse. So I have a thought but it comes from memory with no hard support.
The individual ignition box some times called I think a coil pack replaces a coil and distributor for a variety of reasons. It gets rid of the mechanics of one and the spark plug wires and low voltage controls substitute for points or electronic equivalent so ignition timing and spark control can be controlled directly by the computer. To have A spark plug burn out is a bit odd. With out knowing what other reasons there are for that, one of them are too much current going through the spark plug gap causing things to overheat and then corrode.
And the thing that controls that is the individual coil pack as it is the thingy that actually develops the spark plug voltage in the first place.
So if a spark was missing rather than having it be a coil which would affect all spark plugs, it could be a coil pack which affects only the one that it is attached to. It would seem to me that there is some form of resistance measurements you would be able to make on one to determine if it is bad or not but I don't know what they are. The other thing might be inspecting it for physical damage but then again, no guarantee anything would be visible. But the parts needed to make A spark plug actually spark are limited to the coil back, it's connections to the spark plug and the signal going to it.
If I had to guess I would guess a problem with the coil pack as long as something like a compression check indicated no real problem with the cylinder.
 
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