With a load tester on the battery, draw it down to 9.5 volts and see what amps you get. should be somewhere near 200 amps.

 

hey guys....you wont belive what my boyfriend found out....he was told the autozone terminal only alt/battery tests are garbage! and got the voltimeter test done, standing battery test yield 12.4 which were told was fine, alt. on load , wipers/ac/radio/day time lites were 13.15 give or take 5 points......they wanted to see higher like 14.......isthat ok for our cars???if so that leaves that out.
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The problem you are asking for help on is one of intermittent failure to start.
The test above while may not be a perfect way to check something either from Autozone ( the counter man may have no clue what he or she is doing and doing it wrong) or using a volt meter (the problem with that is that it must be interpretted and if the knowledge is not there to interpret the results, the decision is bogus) is not a test of the starter, but one of the Alternator.
Now an alternator failure sure can cause the Battery to go dead AND not be able to start the car.
But the battery going dead does not magically fix itself.
The reading I would look for is 14.3 volts with the engine running and no electical load turned on.
With everything you can find in the car turned on, and the lights, A/C with the fan on high is pretty much the biggest load there is except if you have an aftermarket radio with killer power, turn it on too. I am not sure 13.15 is a real good number but something smaller than 14.3 would be expected and not be problematic.
The POINT?
This is a test of the alternator and it seems to be working. As long as the battery is charged, the alternator is working and the starter should too.
What is missing? A reading of the Battery at the time the Starter does not work.
Of course it could be a wire connection problem. For the most part hard to see and difficult to troubleshoot with a meter if you have never done it before.
The concept is one of theory and not knowing it is disadvantage. So what is left, visual. If the connections are full of corrosion and look like hell, clean them. That generally takes care of a lot of problems.
The cps = computor. Believe me, the probability of that being the problem is minimal. And if changed incorrectly to the tune of a bunch of bucks can cause more problems than you can possibly imagine. However human nature frequently address the least understood which would be the technology of the CPS so it must be bad.
However the BASICS say, as far as guess work goes.
The starter is giving you problems.
Historically that has been a problematic component on automobiles since the electric starter replace the manual crank some where around 1910.
It might cost money to replace one, it is a guess. You have not proven that there is something better to guess at.
You have a used starter allready. It is in your car. Buying a used starter to replace the one you have is not the smartest solution.
A free used starter is at least worth trying but one that costs almost as much as a new one?
In my opinion, a stupid way of spending money that might be very hard to earn.
As to where to buy one at?
I have no problems with an autoparts store.
I like CarQuest. But then again, I also get a 10% discount and over the years have been a friend of the counter man Jim.
As to the others, my nephew uses RockAuto and on line service but he lives out in the puckerbrush some where in upstate N.Y. and has stuff delivered to him.
He only has one car that runs.
I on the other hand have 5.

 

If your battery is drawing down to 9.5 volts, then you need to get another battery. While I'm not a mechanic, I've been working on my own cars for nearly 40 years. That battery has a weak cell and will leave you stranded before long. Your alternator appears to be good, just looking at the voltage readings. And Uncljohn is dead on correct when he states that corrosion is a killer. Check your battery cables very closely. Corrosion will creep under the insulation and you won't see but a little bit of it. If you see any at all, just strip the insulation back about half of an inch and check it. Baking soda and water make a great corrosion remover. Vinegar and baking soda work even better. Just be sure to rinse the connections and cables thoroughly and cover any bare wires with electrical tape.

 

thanks unclejn

we have heard to sides and advice of what the standin batt. voltage should be, atuzone told me at 12 minium to get the car started, then i heard atleast 12.8....i am so confused....!!!!

if i get a new battery and find that the alt. , which realized seems on its way out and puttin only 13.15 underload will soon 2 b replaced.....

as far as corrossion, the batt. term are clean, i ddnt check starter connections, but i figure i am gettin clickin sound so voltge is gettin there, the ques. is how much amp.???is gettin there, but will check it today....but i doubt the starter wires/term. are bad......

what i realized is if its a bad batt./alt....how come the car still starts after the car cools down after drivin?????i told everyone when we drive it for a while 30mins or so, make a few stops its sometimes starts, but the more hotter we gett it longer we drive it, and we wan t to start it again after shuttin it off and fails to start........ Point: it cools down for 10mins or so then it starts right up....meanin that it had enuff juice to kick on after all........thats y i am not a big fan replacin for alt./batt idea. if the alt. was failin i should never have gotten the car to start after it cools off or in the morning the first time i start it, it starts fine.....

was i clear?let me know what you think, and ill chk corression at the starter.....i wish there was a way we can just check the starter motor itself. independently. autzone does that batt/alt./starter diode check with electronic box, so i am gonna let them check it again??? what else can i do....

thanks for clearin up the CPS is not at fault, i agree w u there, wish it was, cheap and easy fix, glad isaved somemoney there not buyin one. Thanks

 

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the ignition control module. I've had modules on other cars start to go bad and due to the thermodynamics of the materials and circuitry, cause intermittent starting problems. Seems that when they'd get hot, a connection would expand and lose contact. After it cooled off some, it would contract and reconnect. Now, I don't recommend purchasing one on a maybe, but see if your local AZ or Advance can test it for you if you bring it in. Back years ago, they could check certain styles, but I haven't had to do that since about 1994, so I don't know if the still offer that service or not.

 

well hey guys we did some more testing and research. internet shows that batterty needs 12.4 and up for optimum starting. alternator as uncle jn and other confirmed 13.8and up....i am at 13.1-13.2....

my shade tree mechanic thinks when i have the air on and other things the alternator is playin catchup and there fore not putting the battery up to par. so when i go to start it after drivin it the batt. is depleted to the point just enuff. that it duznt send enuff amps to the starter!!!to spin flywheel..... when it duz. start, its b/c the battery /alternator cools down and regains amps and then it duz let me start it. he said it will get worse.....duz this make sense???
or is it still the starter motor/silonoid goin or could it be both???

he told me to take the belt off tomm. and wiggle the alt. pulley wheel and check for drag i spin the alt. pulley, there should be drag and no free wheel spining as that will show the alt. has no pull and bearins are shot.

well today drivin and testin it again, i heard a chirpin bearin should comin from the alt/steerin side of the pulleys near the firewall....so i figure its the alt.???steerin is fine so far.....no more when i do the test....

also, FYI please note....from the rear tire, gettin that whistlin hi pitch after the car is drivien for at least 20mins or warmed up......i heard its the fuel pump , they said the bearins are wearing, on the way out. he said prob. from the weak alt. not givin enuff current back so the pump had towork harder....who knows at this point????

when i rev the car the whistlin does not get louder. he duznt think it has anythin to do with the problem i have with the intermittent startin rite now but could be a problem in future.


still confused about either starter or alt. at this point.........but just b/c the alt. is goin bad it duznt rule out that starter is good either, it seems they work 2gether.

....i am in new york, the car has 70k, powertrain is great, new tires and drives great except for these annoyin problems. sunrroof, leather, foglights,auto sl2....were thinkin about puttin it up for sale????

 

Dead batteries do not magically become undead.
Bad alternators do not affect how a car starts unless the battery is dead because the alternator is dead
Alternators that are dead? Are well dead.
They do not magically start to work again.
Starter motors though? like any motor can fail when they get hot and work when they are cool.
Autozone offers a service of checking things. That is not unusual, auto parts stores offer that same service for years and years and it is only as good as:
1. the equipment that does the checking
2. The person who is doing the checking.
Sorry, for the most part places like Autozone do not have the best mechanical diagnostic people in the world working for them. So information must be taken with a grain of salt.
If you personally can not do any better and you do not know anyone that can do any better than you are somewhat depending on others to GUESS what is wrong and go with it.
My guess based on the information you have given which to some extent reflects the fact you have no idea at all what you are talking about is the starter is having some intermittent problems. A characteristic of a Starter quite frankly and that is my guess.
What you do with it is your decision. No matter what is done, it is gonna cost you money.
Right now based on YOUR evaluation of what a new starter cost is gonna be, it looks like it is gonna cost you $120.00 from some place called Delcor which I have never heard of and really don't care if I have or not.
As to lasting 30 or 40K? I have 7 cars at the moment and most of them have functional starters. Some of them have hundreds of thousands of miles on them and are 40+ years old.
I buy my parts from an auto parts store called CarQuest. The come in boxes marked CarQuest. They work and that makes me happy.
Get a second opinion as to the cost of the starter.
If you only want one that may last 30 to 40k I am sure you can get a cheap one some where other wise find out what a starter costs from some place else.
As to what is wrong? I'm not there, can't see, touch or smell and frankly the information you are passing on is highly questionable and while I am sure you are doing your best, your best is not good enough. That leads to a guess as to why it won't start.
Mine is the starter is bad.

 

hey guys.....the alt. sounded a little louder, chirpin,squeal sound when i gave it gas, but now at idle you hear bearin play....

i tried to take belt off, but my open wrench 14m was to short and could find a bar to leverage......is the belt possible to take it off, thru the wheel well cover off???with a socket ratchet thru the wheel well cover???or gonna need a breaker bar??

...........the reason y i want to check the the pulley of the alt. and see if theres drag, FYI, i got anaother voltmeter
test on it, this time i put a/c, wipers, radio, brights on, with load the alt was 12.9!!!!, 12.74 batt with no loads on......the

new noise from the alt. that i heard from begining of my tests has gotten louder and def. sounds like its coming from the alt. and now this test sure proves it, the last alt. test i got 2 days ago under load was 13.18 and has gotten worse....soon i wouldnt b able to start it but batt. is still strong, i am drivin if i have 2 w/o loads on......

this could b contributing to the intermittment problem as between starts when the car gets hot and we drive with the a/c on and other loads it doesnt have enuff to start till it cools down.........or ITS A DOUBLE WHAMMY!!!! both parts have to b changed regardless.......but i am startin w/the alt........and hopin that was it and the starters o.k.

i read posts on the site where they had startin problems and changed alt, starter, batt. rear seats.lol......to finally get it fixed when it was only one thing and dont want to b like them.....wont know about starter till the alt. gets fixed b/c facts are facts and the alt. has shown bad numbers on the test and makes these noises so have to go from there.

btw, i tried shoppin for a long open end wrench for belt removal autozone duznt has one, where can i find one, how much?? hard to find short pipe big enuff to fit openend wrench inside it as a braker bar, have any ideas??

still appreciate you guys help!, or if theres anythin else let me know

 

Recent infromation also indicates your alternator is ALSO starting to go into a failure mode. This now indicates two problems.
Intermittent starting
and and alternator problem.
If memory serves at the moment, you will find that you have to take the wheel off and go through the fenderwell to remove the starter.
To remove the Serpentine Belt tension you have to take the tension off of the idler which is spring loaded.
You will most likely need a tool designed to do that and they can be rented from your AutoZone parts place.
As it appears that you now have two problems.
Internittent failure to start
and
the need to replace the alternator
you might as well do both of them at the same time. Save yourself a lot of work.
A dead battery because the alternator does not work is
DEAD
and does not magically become un-dead
there for if your car does not start because the alternator is defective and the battery is now dead, will not start untill the battery is charged or replaced.
Be safe, hopefully you have a good jack and some jack stands to hold the car up safely while you work on it.

 

ok if Alt. is making noise it's gotta get replaced , you could test it yourself by starting the car then removing one of the battery cables, if car continues running your Alt. is working , if car dies your Alt. is bad.

your tensioner pulley will have a spot on it for your ratchet and shouldn't be so tuff that you need any kind of breaker bar. pull tensioner until you have slack in your belt and pull it off..... but remember the way it winds through cause your gonna have to put it back on too!

I wouldn't bother removing Alt. pulley unless your going to buy an alt. re-build kit (sometimes available) but it can be a pain, just buy a re-manufactured or hit the junk yard.

your battery will probably be fine.