Start by posting the year, make & model of car your talking about.

 

Its in my signature.

 

The noise as you described it, unless you can actually see a broken motor mount, then in my opinion, it sounds like a CV Joint.

 

But its not doing it on the dry pavement, just on snow...like the wheel is hopping (doubt it is though)

 

But its not doing it on the dry pavement, just on snow...like the wheel is hopping (doubt it is though)
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Well, from a failure analysis standpoint it still sounds to me like a CV joint. I don't have snow where I live unless I want to drive to it. Something that influenced me to move to where I live. But, if snow is to be some form of a key to the problem then maybe there is no problem.
Or if there is it has something to do with the brakes.
WHY?
These things have some form of a pretend limited slip function. On mine you can turn it on an off, a 94 SC2. A lot of new cars have the same function called different names, traction control comes to mind. I don't care, I am old school. Limited slip is a function of the differential. The pretend ones use computor controlled application of the brakes to act as either a traction device (one wheel slips so the brakes are applied to that wheel while the other tries to drive) or under acceleration the same thing more or less. It is possible I guess that if what ever the thing is called is sensing a differential speed or rpm difference between the two front wheels or maybe all four, don't know myself, and that what you are feeling is the brakes being applied rappidly to control wheel spin or speed on slippery slopes. And the klunking sound is either normal ( I had a Lincoln that did that in the rain, I hated that Lincoln) or something actually is loose in the front suspension so when this does happen on snow it rattles. My Saturn is in good shape. I have worked on cars that most everything was loose and shot so it does happen. The point is though if you really do not think it is a CV joint because it happens on the snow, maybe this anti-lock or traction control function controlled by the computor popping individual wheel brakes is causing it on slippery surfaces. I can turn mine off. I don't know on yours. My new Chrysler has something like that too, but I can not turn it off. But if you can turn it off, do it and see if the problem goes away.

 

Im assuming this pretend limited slip thing has something to deal with the diff pin, but thats besides the point.

When my wheel hub went bad (around 105 k miles) there was an intermittent knock that only occurred when turning or in certian conditions, until the point of it almost failing. Then when I tried to press the bearing out, the hub broke and sheared off a piece of metal.

also, I have wheel hop when turning all the time, even more in snow and rain. however, the wheel was cut hard. How hard are you turning when this occurs?

a weak motor mount can contribute, there is one behind the passenger wheel that can be worn out, its behind plastic shields so its hidden. If you search on youtube you can find videos on how to see if the mount is worn.
(the pics are where all the mounts are, aftermarket mounts in place. Theres other mounts under the battery tray and in-between the transmission and cradle - which there isnt a picture of)
thats my book worth 2 cents

 

Octavious said:
Im assuming this pretend limited slip thing has something to deal with the diff pin, but thats besides the point.
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No, not really and that is why I am bringing it up.
A locking differential in it 3 or 4 forms (except one) senses mechanicaly one tire spinning faster and out of control. Then through a mechancial action applies clutches or some form of mechanical locking action so the spinning side gets coupled to the side that is not spinng (the natural function of a differential to allow 2 different axle shaft speeds for the purpose of being able to turn corners ) because when this happens the drive power gets transferred to the spinning wheel and the non-spinning wheel is the one that needs the drive.

The pretend units use a speed sensor at the wheel(s) that a computor monitors. And when it senses one wheel spinning faster than it should, it applies the brake to it to stop the spinning. The assumption being it has no traction so if the brake it applied then the power is again applied to the non-spinning wheel through the differential to the non spinning wheel.
Each method has plus and minuses. The locking differential axle works best as a rear axle. It does not care what is going on elsewhere, is heavy, bulky and self contained and only has one function. To stop wheel spin for acceleration purposes.
The method of using a brake system works also for front wheel drive in that the differential is part of a transaxle which has a space premium problem. Gets tricky to have it work as part of a front wheel drive lay out with out feed back to the steering wheel and because it is computor controlled at the brake, can also be used as an-anti lock brake system where if one wheel locks up under braking thus affecting the ability to steer, it will unlock the brake to the locked up wheel freeing it up so you can steer.
It does this by pulsing the brakes. So if the brakes are pulsing it is possible to feel it through the car depending on the traction available and how well it works.
Early systems that worked that way caused an awful lot of brake problems that resulted in slamming and banging noises in the car or just out and out brake failure problems.
My Lincoln ( damn that thing) slammed and banged like mad with an awful bouncing of the brake pedal when it functioned. When it was wet and road was slippery and I was driving too fast it did it all the time.
Later on I owned a Dodge Caravan that had the same system and it was prone to failure which causes excessive brake pedal pressure to stop the thing.
The Lincoln I bought new and got rid of it at 60,000 miles because the bumper to bumper warrenty ran out and I was not about to pay to fix the damned thing. The Dodge I bought from a junk yard for $500.00 and it had 300,000 miles on it. Even with the anti-lock system failing, I could stop it. You just had to push harder on the pedal.
My Saturn, a 94 has a button on the consul I think that is where it is, that turns the system on and off. I looked at a Camero that was about the same vintage that worked that way too that had controlls to turn it on and off. I think the lable indicates it is a limited slip function rather than anti-loc brakes.

Todays cars a computor controlled anti-loc brake system is more reliabile, pretty much standard and invisible to the drivers and passengers, unlike the systems used in the 80's and early (I think) 90's.

Cluncking and banging on snow when slowing down to turn corners while riding the brakes could be the anti-lock brake system working.

Don't know for sure, I don't have snow. If there is a switch that turns things on and off, try it.
If it stops clunking, then maybe it is normal or indicates something is going on with that system.

I have had CV joints go out that act just like that.
I have never had a motor mount go out and have it sound like that. Doesn't mean it can't, just never had one happen. I also never changed a motor mount unless it was broken. And any knocking sound caused by a motor mount broken that I have seen take place was a low lever vibration caused by the engine vibrating as it ran.
Broken motor mounts need to be looked at, found and replaced if broken. If one ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it is a CV joint only acting up when it snows? That is going to be harder to determine.
If it is caused by the anti-lock brake system working when the road is extremely slippery? It might be normal, then again, it might not be. Look at what ever locates the front tire assembly that is mounted in rubber to see if the rubber is broken causing parts to move around and whack things when the anti-lock system is controlling that wheel.
Don't know. I have owned cars that the entire front end was shot, all the rubber that located front end parts deteriorated with loose pieces that drove out o.k. more or less but rattled like a dropped trash can going over speed bumps. I am working on one now.
It's hard to guess what is broken working with an in-exact description, can't see the problem your self and pusing the shift button rather than holding a wrench.

 

Ah, so basically its part of traction control? If I remember correctly, only cars with ABS have traction control. The traction part is able to be turned off, from a button on the console. The way you were saying it confused me. Ive heard of welding the diff pin so I went from there lol.

If the car has abs/trac control, this could be feasible

 

people do weld the diff pin in S car transmissions..........

 

Yup on the ABS/Traction Control. I went out and looked at my Saturn last night, it is a traction control system on it. It can be turned off. The car was bought used in 1996 and it has never been in the snow.
I'll have to admidt, being old enough to have driven more than a few cars with limited slip when you are looking for ultimate acceleration almost with out regard to road conditions I would rather have the axle that locks up instead of the system that applies the brakes to the spinning wheel. The down side to that is I have gotten more then a few cars sideways because of it.
On the other hand I had an 87 Oldmobile Cutlass with the W30 suspension and the international suspension package (Cutlass = Generic Front wheel drive suspension) and it has the Buick designed 3.8 in it. Faster than snot and I won a lot of stop light drag races with it. Front when drive cars with power have a tendancy to bump steer a lot when nailed and with out a way to lock up the front wheels I would hold the steering wheel tight to keep the tires straight and nail it, they would spin, blue smoke rising!!!! And the thing would hop around the road but would stay in lane. It generally made enough commotion it would disturb the other drivers concentration and about the time they were distracted it would hook up and dissappear.
I beat a lot of cars that frankly were faster (small block V8 MonteCarlos) because it distracted people, but it was bloody fast.
I am sure people have welded pins in Saturn suspensions, pinion gears have been welded in rear axles too. Except it destroys the natural need to have one tire spin faster than the other while going around corners and puts undo stress on parts and they break. That is a common poor mans locking differenctial, but generally only successful on dirt track racing where traction is poor.
Sprint Cars run a solid axle with a spool and differnt size rear tires but are on dirt and corner sideways while sliding.
On cement, parts break.
Sorry on the confusion, un-intentional. Some times I write the way I think and I discover I function using abstract theory. I did not realize that (who would) until I became a technical instructor and found I thought different than most people. I did not realise how different until I had a student that functioned the same way. Most people need some form of hands on being shown.
An abstract theory person is one who being told once, understands it and can move their hands to make things work. It has it's good and bad points. Sorry, some times at O'dark thirty I wake up in the AM and sit here and write until my back stops hurting. I have never rebuild a differential, but have changed a pinion bearing seal. I have only rebuild a couple of automatics and quite a few standard transmissions. And avoid pulling tansmissions and engines on Front Wheel drive cars. I hurt to damn bad to deal with the tight spaces and the awkwardness of getting at things.