P0130 and P0134
#1
08-06-2019, 10:07 AM
P0130 and P0134 2001 SC1 1.9 SOHC
Really been struggling with this one. With advanced scanner, all sensors are reading properly except bank one 02, hence no fuel trim. Checked and cleaned every ground, replaced coolant sensor and connector(reads properly on dash and scanner), replaced 02, ran new wire from ecm to 02, ran a ground cable directly to 02, swapped ecm. Still no reading from 02. HOWEVER, with digital volt meter and an external 02 I can see voltage changes while heating 02 with propane torch. I really need to get this pesky one fixed. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Dave Gunger; 08-06-2019 at 07:05 PM. Reason: title inaccurate
#3
08-06-2019, 05:13 PM
Duh!! Sorry...2001 SC1 1.9 sohc. Tried NGK then Denso..which I believe is factory replacement.
#4
08-07-2019, 12:29 AM
Which denso?
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
#5
08-07-2019, 08:55 AM
Which denso?
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
OE Style; Upstream; DENSO is the O.E. Manufacturer / Oxygen Sensor
I know you're not Derf. Before joining this group I followed OldNucs diagnostic procedure as a guest on this forum. removed and cleaned those grounds and every single ground throughout the engine bay. Double checked those grounds with a power probe and even added a temporary ground or two. HOWEVER, if i would connect and disconnect the o2 rapidly it would change voltage enough to put the car into closed loop hence i would get fuel trim readings even though they were not accurate. Otherwise it would just send out that constant .440 volt reading.
#6
10-15-2019, 03:30 PM
FOUND IT!! One of the tan ground wires going to the block had some internal damage not visible. Ran a new ground from the computer and she's all good. Hope this helps someone.
#8
10-16-2019, 12:57 AM
Another OldNuc tidbit saves the day.
He's one of probably 5 Saturnfans members whose posts I believe. He's been wrong but he knows more than 99.8% of the members about S cars.
Thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to come back and post the resolution. Stick around.,,,you might just not like us......
He's one of probably 5 Saturnfans members whose posts I believe. He's been wrong but he knows more than 99.8% of the members about S cars.
Thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to come back and post the resolution. Stick around.,,,you might just not like us......
#9
08-19-2020, 06:02 PM
Big black ground wire
Which denso?
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
I'm not trying to be a smart-***.
My experiences with Bosch are thoroughly negative.
There is a denso that is the exact equivalent of the AC Delco or GM part number which is actually a denso in an AC Delco box. Purchasing it as a denso costs 40% less. I know this one works.
Seeing as you have had no luck with two different brand new O2 sensors, I guess we need to look at the set up a bit more.
the following is from a Saturnfans.com post by OldNuc, someone who knows s cars.
------++++
Back of block, above starter and right under the #4 intake runner there is a 10mm bolt with 2 ring terminals and 4 wires, 2 tan and 2 black/white. You can reach them from above so remove bolt without dropping it and clean block and ring terminals. Then reset codes by pulling the PCM B fuse. See if it comes back. You can also disconnect the O2 sensor connector and wipe off the contact points with a clean dry cloth, no solvents or grease though. Reconnect.
------+++
Don't know offhand what these grounds are for, but clean up and reattach seems to correct the issue. They are likely the main ground leads to which all grounds are connected.
I have seen people state there was a lack of continuity on the lead wire from the connector back to the PCM so I would check that.
In your post at Saturn spot, you indicated that you did not think the car was going into closed loop operation. What is the basis for that conclusion? That because the front O2 sensor is misbehaving, it cannot possibly b correcting the air-fuel mixture? I believe PCM will still go into closed-loop operation even if one or both of the O2 sensors is misbehaving. I say this because the only way to determine that the front O2 sensor is misbehaving is to put everything into closed-loop operation and read the voltage being generated.
I think when there is insufficient activity and circuit malfunction codes that the PCM assumes a steady value of the crossover point which is 0.45 volts as a static value to keep the car from running too rich or too lean and damaging stuff. But it is still in closed-loop and it is paying attention to all the other sensors that influence air fuel mix.
I really think that it is a grounding issue at the block as discussed above. You seem to know what you're doing electrically. This cause and effect relationship is apparently non-obvious. I can look up a wiring diagram if you'd like me to and type it in words so to speak. But many have found OldNuc 's diagnosis to be true. Obviously not for everyone. But I would definitely look into it. Here is a link to the thread that I pulled the above text from
P0134 is back....again - SaturnFans.com Forums
There is apparently also some sticky on their site covering the combination of these two codes. I did not look for it but I would look it up if I were you
Please stop back and let us know how it goes
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