Steering Column Replacement
#21
02-13-2021 | 04:26 AM
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 5
I would think the ignition SWITCH, not the cylinder, might be the issue. Passlock security did not visit the S series until 1999. Cars locked with the fob engaged a starter disable. If the alarm were somehow enabled, the horn should be honking and the lights flashing for about 2 minutes.
If the key is not turning, clearly there is a problem with cylinder not turning properly. The question is whether the cylinder is messed or the ignition switch from which the wires run to and from the battery, starter, etc, is bad, or both. Or if one went bad and took out the other along with it.
For as long as I have driven s cars, which is 1992, I have never had the joy of replacing an ignition. However, since there is no special transponder or passlock hall effect sensor BS, I'm assuming the innards of the ignition switch and its interface to the ignition cylinder is probably pretty simple, of course if that is what you are showing the broken part of. The ignition switch should be generic as far as combining it with any compatible ignition cylinder for nonpass lock ignitions, but if the contacts on the switch were damaged during the drill out or anything else, the new cylinder will not make correct contact necessarily with the ignition switch contacts. Therefore leading to seemingly dead almost everything on key turn.
Sounds like you have an automatic, and you pulled off this shifter console to find something broken. Was the gear shifter moving around too freely? I ask because if the vehicle thinks it is not in park or neutral, or if it actually is not in park or neutral, I believe all power to the ignition switch is cut to keep you from starting it in gear. I know that turning it to crank position certainly does nothing as that part of the circuit has been inhibited under said conditions. Don't remember what happens to accessory position in gear. I would think it remains on.
So I would make sure that the gear position sensor is correctly aligned with whatever it is monitoring to determine the gear position. It sounds like the plastic broken thing that you found in there may have been holding that in place. Now it's kind of moving around and therefore, the car is interpreting that it is likely in reverse or drive instead of Park or neutral.
-----------
I assume you hear no sound of the fuel pump priming in the on position?
The dude above had a vehicle with passlock. Usually what happens with those is that the special magnetic sensor inside the lock switch gets misaligned or just literally stops working and does not properly recognize the key. The body control module therefore never sends a message to the PCM to enable the fuel injectors, etc.
None of that applies in your case.
It's the wiring in the car, the battery, the ignition switch, and more likely than not some insidious broken or poor ground. With so many things sharing the same power source I.e the battery and alternator, losing a ground on one circuit may have a bizarre effect on a connected yet unrelated circuit.
This is not meant to be an insulting question. How clean are your battery terminals, are your battery cables intact as in not crunchy if you cut the insulation back a few inches? Finally, do you have a solid corrosion free ground at the body, not the paint, on the other end of the neg battery cable?
How old is your battery?
Now that you have a rotating key, have you tried jump starting the vehicle?
Just because you are seeing 12 volts in various places does not mean the required current can be supplied if the wiring is highly corroded and therefore provides significant electrical resistance.
What is the battery voltage at rest? What does the voltage dip to when you turn the key to start? Does it change?
Worry not, I enjoy wild goose chases through S car wiring. There's always something new to be learned, like what the **** is wrong with your vehicle for example
If the key is not turning, clearly there is a problem with cylinder not turning properly. The question is whether the cylinder is messed or the ignition switch from which the wires run to and from the battery, starter, etc, is bad, or both. Or if one went bad and took out the other along with it.
For as long as I have driven s cars, which is 1992, I have never had the joy of replacing an ignition. However, since there is no special transponder or passlock hall effect sensor BS, I'm assuming the innards of the ignition switch and its interface to the ignition cylinder is probably pretty simple, of course if that is what you are showing the broken part of. The ignition switch should be generic as far as combining it with any compatible ignition cylinder for nonpass lock ignitions, but if the contacts on the switch were damaged during the drill out or anything else, the new cylinder will not make correct contact necessarily with the ignition switch contacts. Therefore leading to seemingly dead almost everything on key turn.
Sounds like you have an automatic, and you pulled off this shifter console to find something broken. Was the gear shifter moving around too freely? I ask because if the vehicle thinks it is not in park or neutral, or if it actually is not in park or neutral, I believe all power to the ignition switch is cut to keep you from starting it in gear. I know that turning it to crank position certainly does nothing as that part of the circuit has been inhibited under said conditions. Don't remember what happens to accessory position in gear. I would think it remains on.
So I would make sure that the gear position sensor is correctly aligned with whatever it is monitoring to determine the gear position. It sounds like the plastic broken thing that you found in there may have been holding that in place. Now it's kind of moving around and therefore, the car is interpreting that it is likely in reverse or drive instead of Park or neutral.
-----------
I assume you hear no sound of the fuel pump priming in the on position?
The dude above had a vehicle with passlock. Usually what happens with those is that the special magnetic sensor inside the lock switch gets misaligned or just literally stops working and does not properly recognize the key. The body control module therefore never sends a message to the PCM to enable the fuel injectors, etc.
None of that applies in your case.
It's the wiring in the car, the battery, the ignition switch, and more likely than not some insidious broken or poor ground. With so many things sharing the same power source I.e the battery and alternator, losing a ground on one circuit may have a bizarre effect on a connected yet unrelated circuit.
This is not meant to be an insulting question. How clean are your battery terminals, are your battery cables intact as in not crunchy if you cut the insulation back a few inches? Finally, do you have a solid corrosion free ground at the body, not the paint, on the other end of the neg battery cable?
How old is your battery?
Now that you have a rotating key, have you tried jump starting the vehicle?
Just because you are seeing 12 volts in various places does not mean the required current can be supplied if the wiring is highly corroded and therefore provides significant electrical resistance.
What is the battery voltage at rest? What does the voltage dip to when you turn the key to start? Does it change?
Worry not, I enjoy wild goose chases through S car wiring. There's always something new to be learned, like what the **** is wrong with your vehicle for example
#22
02-13-2021 | 10:18 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,135
From: Anniston, AL
Have you had the battery load tested, Zach? I'm sure that's one thing derf's asking. You can have a battery that shows 13 or 14 volts and still had a crap battery. It's not the voltage there that's important, it's the CCA. If your battery has a dead cell or two, as soon as you try to start the car and put a load on it, there's not enough juice to spin the starter. If you put a volt meter on the battery and try to engage the starter, what is the voltage reading? If it falls much below 12, you might want to try booster cables or a new battery.
#23
02-13-2021 | 10:58 AM
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 5
Have you had the battery load tested, Zach? I'm sure that's one thing derf's asking. You can have a battery that shows 13 or 14 volts and still had a crap battery. It's not the voltage there that's important, it's the CCA. If your battery has a dead cell or two, as soon as you try to start the car and put a load on it, there's not enough juice to spin the starter. If you put a volt meter on the battery and try to engage the starter, what is the voltage reading? If it falls much below 12, you might want to try booster cables or a new battery.
#24
02-13-2021 | 01:08 PM
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 5
. I actually do not have a volt meter. The other night just got giggles and ****s i slow charged it till it was 100 just because i've toyed around with it alot the past month and havent been able to drive it and let the alternator charge it.. I talked to my pick and pull here yesterday and told them i'd be here first thing this morning and the s.o.b closed for inclement weather. I just drove 40 miles
. I got back home and hooked the battery back up and all the lights that has previously been on thru this whole ordeal that weren't supposed to be on and wouldn't shut off are now all off..
Last edited by Zach Ellis; 02-13-2021 at 01:14 PM.
#25
02-13-2021 | 03:28 PM
Super Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,027
From: Slightly off center
I don't believe you answered a single question I asked. I understand you don't have a voltmeter. Get one at harbor freight for less than $10. I doubt you'll fix this without one.
You have no idea about the condition of your battery. Step one of any diagnosis of a computer-controlled vehicle is starting with a known good power source I.e battery. Trying to interpret what the hell is going on when you have no idea whether the car's computer is receiving enough current at the right voltage to operate correctly is wasting time because everything rolls downhill. You can't start a car with a bad battery.
You also didn't answer the jump start question, which is another way of finding out whether your battery is crap. Not sure if you have not tried or wouldn't try now that it's been mentioned. Gives us huge clue as to the state of your battery and the state of your battery cables plus ground.
We have to tackle this one piece at a time. If you don't answer the questions we are posing at step one, we can't move to step two. As far as what is happening right now with the lights and the car thinking it is in the on position, do you know why that is? Neither do I, it doesn't matter in all likelihood, and it is likely useless information if nothing is getting sufficient current to operate properly.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to help you. I told you I am up for the goose chase. You came to the forum for assistance. Please try the things we suggest and report back as to your findings. If you don't help us help you by doing so, then we literally cannot help you .
Putting in another steering column into a vehicle that is misbehaving because of a potentially bad battery solves nothing, addresses nothing, and wastes money.
Disconnect your battery, take it to AutoZone or similar, and ask them to load test it per Rube's suggestion. Until you do that, you are likely wasting everyone's time including your own. The test is free.
You have no idea about the condition of your battery. Step one of any diagnosis of a computer-controlled vehicle is starting with a known good power source I.e battery. Trying to interpret what the hell is going on when you have no idea whether the car's computer is receiving enough current at the right voltage to operate correctly is wasting time because everything rolls downhill. You can't start a car with a bad battery.
You also didn't answer the jump start question, which is another way of finding out whether your battery is crap. Not sure if you have not tried or wouldn't try now that it's been mentioned. Gives us huge clue as to the state of your battery and the state of your battery cables plus ground.
We have to tackle this one piece at a time. If you don't answer the questions we are posing at step one, we can't move to step two. As far as what is happening right now with the lights and the car thinking it is in the on position, do you know why that is? Neither do I, it doesn't matter in all likelihood, and it is likely useless information if nothing is getting sufficient current to operate properly.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to help you. I told you I am up for the goose chase. You came to the forum for assistance. Please try the things we suggest and report back as to your findings. If you don't help us help you by doing so, then we literally cannot help you .
Putting in another steering column into a vehicle that is misbehaving because of a potentially bad battery solves nothing, addresses nothing, and wastes money.
Disconnect your battery, take it to AutoZone or similar, and ask them to load test it per Rube's suggestion. Until you do that, you are likely wasting everyone's time including your own. The test is free.
Last edited by derf; 02-13-2021 at 03:31 PM.
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