First time poster to the forum, so apologies if this is in the wrong area. I'm hoping to get a little help or insight into an issue I'm having with my '97 SC2 coupe.

The vehicle has just over 180k miles, 5 speed manual and besides intermittent shifting issues (usually difficult into first when parked outside in cold weather) and using a decent amount of oil it's been a terrific little vehicle.

Unfortunately, earlier today upon starting from a stop light I experienced some type of transmission failure. As I released the clutch and pressed the gas, the car began moving forward, I proceeded to second gear at which time the car dropped out of gear altogether. When it happened, it didn't sound like it slipped, it sounded like it dropped or something broke.

I now can't get it back into any gear, 1st, 2nd, reverse, nothing. The engine continued to idle, but I had no ability to shift the vehicle into gear.

I'm sort of at a loss as to where to begin troubleshooting. The car will start without any issue and will rev just fine. Brakes, electrical and other systems seem to be operating as normal.

Right now the car is parked in my driveway and I'm deciding whether to attempt a DIY repair, take it to a garage for repair or write it off altogether.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Jeff

 

Probably a stupid question, but have you checked the shift cables to see if one they're broken or the bushings have come out? That's not an uncommon problem with that many miles on a standard shift.

 

Not a stupid question at all. In fact, that's a perfect place for me to start.

Thanks!

 

If they are broken, make sure to get OEM cables from your local authorized saturn service center (damn thats a mouthfull) Aftermarket cables have a tendency to break easily. Yes they are expensive, but it will save you the headache and costs later on. (When i bought some in august last year for my trans swap, they were roughly $300. (It might be more. I cant remember exactly)
If you know where the shift linkage meets the trans you can have a friend throw it through gears and you can tell if its moving.

 

Mine is an automatic so I do not have first hand knowledge as how to go about this specifically but, yup always a but. The saturn manual transmission shifts by a series of cables that go from the shift lever to the transmission.
First if the cable assembly has to be replaced it has been reported repeatedly that the NON-Factory parts are supplied by one vendor no matter where you buy them and are the wrong length and have repeatedly caused problems. As making the repair is both time consuming and expensive it is probably better off to buy them from a dealer that will sell you Genuine GM parts. Before going further I am not an advocate of running to the dealer for everything, but this part is one that so far seem the only place to get a part that works.
That said, as each gear is selected by either a seperat cable or some combination of them it is hard to imagine that A cable is causing this. What you are desribing to me is some form of failure with the shift lever comming out of what ever retains it so that it no longer moves ANY cable when wiggled trying to place the car in gear. If you can get some one to help you, have some one move the lever while you watch to see that parts actually move on the transmission. That should give some clue as to what is going on.
There has been reports of the shift lever comming out of what ever holds it.
Sorry I can not be any more specific, there are threads on it.
This is also the time I suggest buying a Chilton or Mitchels or some ones service manual on the car. O'Rielys or Pep-Boys or Autozone or one of the auto parts houses with a self help section carry them. Their value to trying to fix things is high and about $25.00. Cars have been come quite complex over the years and they really help.
Don't dissappear. Feed back. That way we can give you a better idea what to look for when you can describe better what is going on.

 

Shifter cables do need to be looked at first. The bushings in the ends break because the cables stretch. Replace the cables with new ones from the dealer. Also search the forum for more information on the cables.

PS: Let us know what you find.

 

So I finally had a chance today to put the car up on jack stands, take out the center console and have a closer look.

Despite my hope for a relatively simple solution, it appears the bushings and shift cable ends inside the car are intact and functional. I also got under the car to view the other end of the cables and they are also in good shape.

Additionally the hardware attached to the shift cables on both ends appears to be functional and unencumbered. Moving the shift lever through the gears results in the appropriate movement in both shift cables on both ends. I also moved the shift cables from underneath the car and the shift lever inside responded accordingly.

I also started the car up for a moment and am still unable to put it in any gear.

Any insight as to what I might want to try next?

Thanks to everyone for their advice and help it is certainly appreciated.

Jeff

 

Moving the shift lever through the gears results in the appropriate movement in both shift cables on both ends. I also moved the shift cables from underneath the car and the shift lever inside responded accordingly.

I also started the car up for a moment and am still unable to put it in any gear.
==========================
Ok, here in lies a bit of a problem.
If:
Wiggling the shifter moves the cables at the transmission end, lacking a better definition, it can be reasonably assumed that the transmission is in gear. While it can not be seen, the action of moving the mechanics at the transmission should also be accompanied by some kind of mechanical noise that says something in the transmission actually moved too. Thus if you have the engine off so you can hear things, and put the gear shift into say 3rd gear or 1st, it should make no difference you ought to be able to hear something mechanical take place inside the transmission.
If the car is on jack stands so both front wheels are off the ground and the transmission is in neutral, taking one wheel and trying to turn it by hand usually has the tendancy to also turn the opposite wheel the same way.
There is a differential as part of the transaxle and while it is also possible that it may not work that way, most of the time when the transmission is in neutral turning by hand one wheel will also turn the other wheel the same direction.
But
if the transmission is in gear, turning one wheel by hand will always try to turn the other wheel the opposite direction.
You do not need the engine running to shift gears. You also do not need the engine running to determine if the transmission is in gear.
So here is my problem in understanding what you are trying to say.
Why is it important for you to say
with the engine running you can not shift gears.
Are you trying to say
with the engine running and you let out on the clutch the car will not move when you place the transmission in gear, any gear?
Because I am not sure from what you are trying to say, the problem is in the transmission or the linkage, at least as to whether it is in gear or not.

 

Problem found!

Thank you uncljohn and everyone else for your suggestions (and patience).

I did as suggested and got under the car, grabbed the right front wheel and started to rotate it. Took a look at the left front and... nothing. Repeated the same process with the left front and looked at the right, again, nothing. Tried again with the right front, this time wearing a headlamp and noticed that the boot inside the brake caliper (CV joint?) had a very pronounced and awkward rotation.

Upon inspecting it further, it appears part of the drive shaft sheared off. Next step is to determine how easy difficult it will be to replace and begin the process of repair.

Thanks again to everyone for their assistance, I started not knowing where to start with the troubleshooting and learned part of the process of going through the steps to locate the problem.

Oh, and uncljohn, to answer your last question regarding why I was saying I couldn't shift gears, I wasn't explaining clearly. I was attempting to describe that I had my foot on the clutch and as I let it out, the car would not go into motion.

Originally, when the problem started I didn't have much of an opportunity to describe and experience exactly the process I would go through and what the result was. Upon getting the car home, I didn't take the time to hop in and go through the process in detail. In any case, that's what I meant with my last post.

Thanks again!

Jeff

 

Well Jeff, it sounds like you are on the way to figuring out what is wrong.
O.k., that boot covers what is known as the CV joint. A fancy universal on the axle shaft that goes from the transmission to the front wheel. One for each side.
Some times called a half shaft.
If the boot is cattywhumpas than the CV joint is probably broken. The half shafts are pretty beefy.
It would help now to spend $25.00 to buy a service manual to give you information.
I have changed a few of these things in my life. They all pretty much require about the same procedure.
First you need to buy a replacement part.
CV joints can be purchased and replaced.
They are both expensive and I think difficult.
Surprising enough, a rebuilt half shaft is cheaper than buying a CV joint. A half shaft comes with CV joints already installed and need no more than being slid out of the transmission and out of the steering knuckle and the new one slid in, which is easier said than done.
To get one end out of the steering knuckle you have to unbolt the wheel and then the rotor and expose the end of the half shaft that slid through the bearing in the steering knuckle and there in lies the problem. The steering knuckle has to be moved around to make enough room to do this. That is the hard part. Some times the lower ball joint is fairly easy to remove from the bottom of the strut to the lower control arm. And some times it isn't.
When it isn't, I have found unbolting the lower control arm from the uni-body or chassi of the car gives enough wiggle factor so you can move things around. When you get it to the point where that end of the half shaft can slide through the bearing in the steering knuckle the other end comes out of the transmission just fine with out leaking fluid. the new one goes in following the reverse of the steps.
It helps to have the right wrenches and jacks and all to unbolt things. I have a good selection I know I have the tools to do it with. I don't know whether you do or not. If you don't, consider having it done.
The car will need an alignment when you are done.
When I buy a half shaft, it is a rebuilt one and generally runs between $50 and $100.00 to buy one. I have never changed a half shaft on a Saturn but I have replaced that bearing that the outside end of the half shaft slides through on the steering knuckle.
If you are a sort of decent mechanic and you have the right tools it is a straight forward "dog" job. With out the right tools it will drive you to drink.
Good luck!