Replaced Alternator, Now having diff Problem
#22
10-13-2012 | 04:09 AM
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
From: Northern California
Wow, UnclJohn, Wow, that's about all I can say after all that diagnosis. Forget Jamaica OceanArcher, We're getting in our Saturns and meeting in Vegas. Ok, I'm of the female ilk and yes the dealership saw me coming. I had ruled out everything I kept checking here, and finally the key fob trick stopped working so I figured it had to be starter to I had it towed to my mechanic with the caveat he disconnect the security system first. Its 2AM Fri, I now have time on Sat am to have him go throught UnclJohn's procedure first, Thanks, sorry for run on sentences
#23
10-13-2012 | 08:38 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,912
From: Peoria AZ
Wow!
My favorite kind of
Ilk!
Just catching up with reading this morning. As I said earlier I can as it turns out print out information from my service literature which is in the form of a pirated Mitchel's service soft ware that to me as I look at it is pretty much what one purchases when they buy a service manual from Chilton or Mitchel or whomsoever printed it at your local Pep Boys or O'Riely's auto parts store. As Saturn now has been out of business for some time and the S models which were not only unique in the GM line up are commingle less available through attrition information and parts are getting harder and harder to find.
I have Factory Manuals for almost all the cars I own or have owned except my 2007 Chrysler and my 1994 Saturn. I have a Chilton's or Mitchels manual for them. There is a difference between factory and the generic manuals. A lot of small details are missed. I was indeed surprised to run across the data I typed out. But then again I have never seriously looked for it either. It probably took me about 20 min. of serious hunting to find that data. The biggest problem in finding was knowing what it was called so the correct name was looked for. Once the correct name started triggering a result then finding where in the service literature I was looking at it would be found in.
The point?
The format it was in appeared to be a general GM format applicable to a number of cars made by GM at that time. So a Chevy or Buick dealer that is willing to work on a Saturn SHOULD have some one knowledgeable enough to use a scan tool for error codes and then use the service diagnostics to trigger a proper procedure.
The problem becomes if they do not have authorized Saturn data at a Chevy dealer for example that is complete and comprehensive, knowing that the information they are looking for is GM generic would assist in finding it.
However ASSUMING that what they are looking for is Saturn only with out the knowledge that it is not but is general, it would never be found even if they had it and a means to look for it.
At this point in time my philosophy is that the Stock Statement of Take It To a Dealer is not necessarily a valid assumption simply because there are none. The Saturn Dealers are GONE.
And the replacements in some cases are no better than we are.
The last Saturn special parts I ordered took quite a while to get to me. They did however they arrived in a zip lock sandwich bag with a magic marker part number written on the sandwich bag which is why it took so long to get to me. The parts room guy put it on a shelf some where and forgot about it because it did not come in the normal GM packaging.
I have known dealers to go to the nearest auto parts store to purchase GENUINE Dealer parts (note the sarcasm) to fix something they did not have parts in stock for.
I own and maintain and modify automobiles made by a manufacturer that has been out of business since 1988. For a long time one of the manufacturers that bought them carried a product line for them. That was nice. But by in large the unique parts purchased in high volume (that means the very collectible) for some of the models became available through hobbyist part vendors that pooled their resources and money to make reproduction parts. But as interest in those models are waning even that parts source is disappearing leaving it to owners to figure out how to fix and repair their cars and people like Hoseppi who maintains a Saturn only salvage yard to support us and others in the hobby.
The problem with Saturns as a hobby is that they were not that popular of a car in the first place which as time passes they are cheaper to discard and replace with something else rather than keep and enjoy. The early ones, the S series were unique of their own and shared nothing in common with other GM cars. Where as the last of them had little individual identity and were in truth available from other dealers under a different name.
The the proper euphemism is corporate platforms or some times referred to as Badge Engineering which is a comment made that indicates the only thing that was actually engineered was the name badge that differentiates that car from another one. The minus of it? No particular unique identification to highlight the car. The plus? Many parts are interchangeable with another model with a different name badge. All we have to do as hobbyists is to figure out what those parts are if any. Which is easier said than done.
Oh Well.
Good Luck Chocolate with your car. If you need some service literature that I have access to like I said I can print it out from my soft ware package and then scan it as a jpg and send it as e-mail.
My favorite kind of
Ilk!
Just catching up with reading this morning. As I said earlier I can as it turns out print out information from my service literature which is in the form of a pirated Mitchel's service soft ware that to me as I look at it is pretty much what one purchases when they buy a service manual from Chilton or Mitchel or whomsoever printed it at your local Pep Boys or O'Riely's auto parts store. As Saturn now has been out of business for some time and the S models which were not only unique in the GM line up are commingle less available through attrition information and parts are getting harder and harder to find.
I have Factory Manuals for almost all the cars I own or have owned except my 2007 Chrysler and my 1994 Saturn. I have a Chilton's or Mitchels manual for them. There is a difference between factory and the generic manuals. A lot of small details are missed. I was indeed surprised to run across the data I typed out. But then again I have never seriously looked for it either. It probably took me about 20 min. of serious hunting to find that data. The biggest problem in finding was knowing what it was called so the correct name was looked for. Once the correct name started triggering a result then finding where in the service literature I was looking at it would be found in.
The point?
The format it was in appeared to be a general GM format applicable to a number of cars made by GM at that time. So a Chevy or Buick dealer that is willing to work on a Saturn SHOULD have some one knowledgeable enough to use a scan tool for error codes and then use the service diagnostics to trigger a proper procedure.
The problem becomes if they do not have authorized Saturn data at a Chevy dealer for example that is complete and comprehensive, knowing that the information they are looking for is GM generic would assist in finding it.
However ASSUMING that what they are looking for is Saturn only with out the knowledge that it is not but is general, it would never be found even if they had it and a means to look for it.
At this point in time my philosophy is that the Stock Statement of Take It To a Dealer is not necessarily a valid assumption simply because there are none. The Saturn Dealers are GONE.
And the replacements in some cases are no better than we are.
The last Saturn special parts I ordered took quite a while to get to me. They did however they arrived in a zip lock sandwich bag with a magic marker part number written on the sandwich bag which is why it took so long to get to me. The parts room guy put it on a shelf some where and forgot about it because it did not come in the normal GM packaging.
I have known dealers to go to the nearest auto parts store to purchase GENUINE Dealer parts (note the sarcasm) to fix something they did not have parts in stock for.
I own and maintain and modify automobiles made by a manufacturer that has been out of business since 1988. For a long time one of the manufacturers that bought them carried a product line for them. That was nice. But by in large the unique parts purchased in high volume (that means the very collectible) for some of the models became available through hobbyist part vendors that pooled their resources and money to make reproduction parts. But as interest in those models are waning even that parts source is disappearing leaving it to owners to figure out how to fix and repair their cars and people like Hoseppi who maintains a Saturn only salvage yard to support us and others in the hobby.
The problem with Saturns as a hobby is that they were not that popular of a car in the first place which as time passes they are cheaper to discard and replace with something else rather than keep and enjoy. The early ones, the S series were unique of their own and shared nothing in common with other GM cars. Where as the last of them had little individual identity and were in truth available from other dealers under a different name.
The the proper euphemism is corporate platforms or some times referred to as Badge Engineering which is a comment made that indicates the only thing that was actually engineered was the name badge that differentiates that car from another one. The minus of it? No particular unique identification to highlight the car. The plus? Many parts are interchangeable with another model with a different name badge. All we have to do as hobbyists is to figure out what those parts are if any. Which is easier said than done.
Oh Well.
Good Luck Chocolate with your car. If you need some service literature that I have access to like I said I can print it out from my soft ware package and then scan it as a jpg and send it as e-mail.
#24
10-14-2012 | 01:46 PM
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
From: Northern California
I swim in the words because I love, love, love details! UnclJohn I now know what I am up against with maintaining the life of my car. I will be coming to you with requests if I have service quest. Thanks for the offer. News on this subject:
First thing Sat am I was at the shop to do the ignition procedure to synchronize engine. Didnt Work! So he had to replace the starter. It works fine now. As does my security system: doors , trunk, alarm.
Me? I still believe it had something to do with my key fob and thus the coding info you gave me. And the fact that neither Chevy dealership in my area had ever "heard of such a thing" is not a good thing. One Dealer's solution was a new key fob and reprogram which was same price as new starter. The other dealer a Starter for $450. I had to make an economic choice, me being in the 47 per cent and all lol. And my guy has been good to my Saturn for 7 years, just doesnt have the fancy stuff. $180 parts labor, pick me up bring me home. I know i know its only two bolts, and you get the core, but I just cant do this. I'm a champ at resumes tho!!
Well, its up and running, will get detailed soon, upload pics, then on to the Raider New Orleans game. You Guys are the Best. I"lllll Beee Bakkk, for more
First thing Sat am I was at the shop to do the ignition procedure to synchronize engine. Didnt Work! So he had to replace the starter. It works fine now. As does my security system: doors , trunk, alarm.
Me? I still believe it had something to do with my key fob and thus the coding info you gave me. And the fact that neither Chevy dealership in my area had ever "heard of such a thing" is not a good thing. One Dealer's solution was a new key fob and reprogram which was same price as new starter. The other dealer a Starter for $450. I had to make an economic choice, me being in the 47 per cent and all lol. And my guy has been good to my Saturn for 7 years, just doesnt have the fancy stuff. $180 parts labor, pick me up bring me home. I know i know its only two bolts, and you get the core, but I just cant do this. I'm a champ at resumes tho!!
Well, its up and running, will get detailed soon, upload pics, then on to the Raider New Orleans game. You Guys are the Best. I"lllll Beee Bakkk, for more
#25
10-14-2012 | 11:22 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,912
From: Peoria AZ
Chocolate, one of the problems that occur with today's extremely complicated cars is the complexity some times covers up the basics. Starters go bad. And when they do the magic involved in complex theory accompanied by coincidence confuses the hell out of people.
It makes you want to think it started working because you did a dance around the car so dancing and chanting fixed it. Sort of and for the time being. And you don't have to be a girl to be taken in buy it. I suspect all of us here have been out in left field some where trying to fix something that coincidence and mystery were part of the symptoms being analyzed. I did that for months on a Mitsubishi I owned with a starting problem before I got serious and trouble shot the thing to find there was a neutral safety start switch that failed intermittently and I was able to bypass it which got rid of the intermittent part of the problem. And it let me start it with out following an amusing dance procedure every time I wanted it to run. And all the dance procedure did was keep me busy while waiting for time to pass.
A lot of trouble shooting things like a starter problem is indeed basic. But the complexity of some of the computer controls where you are unable to understand weird symptoms because computer controlled cars are complex. Some times you have to go through a complex relearning procedure just to prove it does not work so it is not the computer but something basic.
It gets confusing.
I'm building my self an old man's street racer. It does not have a computer and I can wire the whole thing myself because I do not have to worry about computers talking to each other.
It is sort of a relief.
Anyway, it is so nice to hear that your car is up and running and that it was some what affordable and you understand it to some extent.
That ought to mess with some peoples minds.
I am dealing with a suspension steering issue and the service manager is sort of talking to me like I just fell off of the Turnip truck. I am trying very hard not to throw something at him.
Oh
Well.
Looking forward to seeing more activity from your end. Pictures and all. And I need to find time to repaint my Saturn again now that I know what I did to mess up the last paint job.
It makes you want to think it started working because you did a dance around the car so dancing and chanting fixed it. Sort of and for the time being. And you don't have to be a girl to be taken in buy it. I suspect all of us here have been out in left field some where trying to fix something that coincidence and mystery were part of the symptoms being analyzed. I did that for months on a Mitsubishi I owned with a starting problem before I got serious and trouble shot the thing to find there was a neutral safety start switch that failed intermittently and I was able to bypass it which got rid of the intermittent part of the problem. And it let me start it with out following an amusing dance procedure every time I wanted it to run. And all the dance procedure did was keep me busy while waiting for time to pass.
A lot of trouble shooting things like a starter problem is indeed basic. But the complexity of some of the computer controls where you are unable to understand weird symptoms because computer controlled cars are complex. Some times you have to go through a complex relearning procedure just to prove it does not work so it is not the computer but something basic.
It gets confusing.
I'm building my self an old man's street racer. It does not have a computer and I can wire the whole thing myself because I do not have to worry about computers talking to each other.
It is sort of a relief.
Anyway, it is so nice to hear that your car is up and running and that it was some what affordable and you understand it to some extent.
That ought to mess with some peoples minds.
I am dealing with a suspension steering issue and the service manager is sort of talking to me like I just fell off of the Turnip truck. I am trying very hard not to throw something at him.
Oh
Well.
Looking forward to seeing more activity from your end. Pictures and all. And I need to find time to repaint my Saturn again now that I know what I did to mess up the last paint job.
#26
10-15-2012 | 07:44 AM
Banned
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,748
From: Riveria of America
Chocolate, I'm nowhere as elequent in my speech as UnclJohn, but I'm like him in the fact that it's great that you've got your car running again.
And since you live out in California, it's not hard to understand your favoritism for the Raiders over the Saints - you are still OK in my book.
I'll be looking for your pictures when you have the time ....
And since you live out in California, it's not hard to understand your favoritism for the Raiders over the Saints - you are still OK in my book.
I'll be looking for your pictures when you have the time ....
#27
10-15-2012 | 08:19 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,134
From: Anniston, AL
Glad to hear all is well. Seems like someone mentioned the starter a few days ago! Hmmmmmmm. Anyway, I hope you're on the search for a better mechanic now. Good luck with that, but word of mouth is usually the best way to find a competent, honest person nowadays. Start asking people you know and trust where they take their cars for repairs.
#28
10-16-2012 | 08:55 AM
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
From: Northern California
Rubehayseed, when you first threw me that juicy bone about the security system and the key fob was making the car start: I was on a conspiracy theory Denzel Washington movie type run. All along knowing I would prob have to pay for a new starter. But wishing, as I am financially challenged, that it would only be a battery and fob and reset. Sooo, not really sure what the lesson. Run down leads or fix the most obvious? lol
#30
10-18-2012 | 09:44 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,134
From: Anniston, AL
I know where you're coming from as far as being financially challenged, Frenchie. Try supporting a family of four on $1,800 per month with a mortgage and car note included! It SUCKS! I've got job applications in all over the place within a 50 mile radius, but nobody wants to hire a 56 year old man that's disabled, for some reason. I can't even get a frigging job at Walmart or Dollar General. And that's sad. I have a BS degree in management and a minor in mass communications. I guess I'm too old to hire.