odd problem
#18
10-03-2012 | 09:44 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,912
From: Peoria AZ
As I sit here thinking about this and a few other problems all while trying to help some one. There is a common theme surfacing which is different due to advanced technology, improved electronics and in some cases approaches to automotive design.
It was state of art to be able to purchase something that developed 1 hp/cu inch, get 10 mpg and if broken fix it for a saw buck.
Today 3hp/ cu inch can be done, 21 mpg and pass smog (something not required 50 years ago) and the cost of repairs exceed replacement value and in some cases available on cars and engine that are directly related to the same one's 50 years ago.
Reliability is a quantum leap forward, but today if bad, the parts can cost more than the car cost to buy.
I am building an engine that a set of points (still available) costs close to $70.00, a $5.00 high performance part even $20.00 years ago making a solid state distributor conversion at about $100.00 a viable option. And the knowledge required to understand the needs and how to trouble shoot even more important. When needed which is rarer today and less understood.
A simple practice of using proper oil selected for reliability is no longer even contemplated with the advent of a decision to use the lightest oil possible for fuel economy function and not worry about reliability as it is cost projected out that it is cheaper to replace something than fix it.
A 20 year old used car, not uncommon can be reliable and cost effective to own as long as it does not break. Until it breaks.
At which point in time the understanding of the technology needed to diagnose and repair is way beyond the average capability to practice it.
I have been asked why I do not build a fuel injected engine. All it costs is about $6000.00 in parts and the answer goes right over the head of the person asking.
I don't have $6000.00 to buy parts with.
I do have 4, $30.00 carburetors which require no electronics, an iffy purchase at best from a junk yard. And I understand carburetors. And a perfectly good almost new distributor removed from an engine due to a $500.00 electronic ignition conversion which did next to nothing from a performance stand point and the coil and ballast resistor needed to support it. And my cost for these parts which are functional at under $30.00 used.
Besides, I built one. It was a challange. There was a basic problem wrong with the theory behind the turn key fuel injection I used. And yes it was turn key. It took me 3 years to figure out why it did not perform correctly and it did not have one thing to do with the functioning of the fuel injection but the mix of parts used on the engine. And it was a $3000.00 cash outlay for parts. Hind sight says it was not worth $3000.00 when everything was evaluated even when it was determined what the problem was and corrected. I'll not build another one.
There are things going on with Saturns that are not being understood due to the complexity of design, the lack of diagnostic tools and in some cases the lack of any service literature that even if read, is not written at a level where some one who is very little awareness of the technology written about is able to apply it.
And frankly, with no dealers, no easily available parts and a dealer staff suggesting repairs that are cost effective to the dealer, not to the potential customer off putting when it comes to actually being able to determine whether they can afford it or not. Or even understand the ramifications of what is going on.
Example
Symptom,
Hard mechanical knocking, no compression when a compression check is made and excessive oil consumption, and rough running all repaired by replacing a coil pack.
And not even a glimmer of a question raised that in this case one and one does not even remotely add up to two!
I dunno what the answer is.
I am not even sure what a question is.
O.K.
Rant over.
It was state of art to be able to purchase something that developed 1 hp/cu inch, get 10 mpg and if broken fix it for a saw buck.
Today 3hp/ cu inch can be done, 21 mpg and pass smog (something not required 50 years ago) and the cost of repairs exceed replacement value and in some cases available on cars and engine that are directly related to the same one's 50 years ago.
Reliability is a quantum leap forward, but today if bad, the parts can cost more than the car cost to buy.
I am building an engine that a set of points (still available) costs close to $70.00, a $5.00 high performance part even $20.00 years ago making a solid state distributor conversion at about $100.00 a viable option. And the knowledge required to understand the needs and how to trouble shoot even more important. When needed which is rarer today and less understood.
A simple practice of using proper oil selected for reliability is no longer even contemplated with the advent of a decision to use the lightest oil possible for fuel economy function and not worry about reliability as it is cost projected out that it is cheaper to replace something than fix it.
A 20 year old used car, not uncommon can be reliable and cost effective to own as long as it does not break. Until it breaks.
At which point in time the understanding of the technology needed to diagnose and repair is way beyond the average capability to practice it.
I have been asked why I do not build a fuel injected engine. All it costs is about $6000.00 in parts and the answer goes right over the head of the person asking.
I don't have $6000.00 to buy parts with.
I do have 4, $30.00 carburetors which require no electronics, an iffy purchase at best from a junk yard. And I understand carburetors. And a perfectly good almost new distributor removed from an engine due to a $500.00 electronic ignition conversion which did next to nothing from a performance stand point and the coil and ballast resistor needed to support it. And my cost for these parts which are functional at under $30.00 used.
Besides, I built one. It was a challange. There was a basic problem wrong with the theory behind the turn key fuel injection I used. And yes it was turn key. It took me 3 years to figure out why it did not perform correctly and it did not have one thing to do with the functioning of the fuel injection but the mix of parts used on the engine. And it was a $3000.00 cash outlay for parts. Hind sight says it was not worth $3000.00 when everything was evaluated even when it was determined what the problem was and corrected. I'll not build another one.
There are things going on with Saturns that are not being understood due to the complexity of design, the lack of diagnostic tools and in some cases the lack of any service literature that even if read, is not written at a level where some one who is very little awareness of the technology written about is able to apply it.
And frankly, with no dealers, no easily available parts and a dealer staff suggesting repairs that are cost effective to the dealer, not to the potential customer off putting when it comes to actually being able to determine whether they can afford it or not. Or even understand the ramifications of what is going on.
Example
Symptom,
Hard mechanical knocking, no compression when a compression check is made and excessive oil consumption, and rough running all repaired by replacing a coil pack.
And not even a glimmer of a question raised that in this case one and one does not even remotely add up to two!
I dunno what the answer is.
I am not even sure what a question is.
O.K.
Rant over.
Last edited by uncljohn; 10-03-2012 at 09:52 AM.
#20
10-04-2012 | 12:07 AM
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 33
Yeah I had thought about going to a junk yard or eBay. Correct me if I am wrong but some sort of bypass has to be done for the security system to make the bcm work without programming it? I decided to go the dealer route because this is my fiances daily driver. If it was my daily driver I would have done that. I want to make sure she has a very dependable car so I forked out the money. To me it's worth it.