Saturn L Series Sedans & Wagons L100, L200, L300, LW200, and LW300

saturn L100 redline

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  #11  
Old 11-12-2012 | 09:18 AM
uncljohn's Avatar
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From: Peoria AZ
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I do my own tuning, have in the past and will in the future. So starting with tuning of anything computer controlled.
You don't.
The computer does every time you start the thing. Which brings up the question of just exactly what is it that you are installing. That is the specific parts.
Is one of them a new engine management computer or if the one on your car is one that accepts aftermarket "chips" or some form of electronics that modify the variables the engine will run with under boost you stilll won't tune it, the computer that runs it will.
If you are installing an engine management system that is lap top controllable than there should be some form of instructions with it that tells you what to do.
The bottom line if none of these things are even remotely related to what you are doing your car is not tunable.
And does not need outside input to run. But if all you are doing is bolting some how a supercharger on to the engine and hoping for the best. Under the present conditions nothing is tunable and performance is going to be questionable at best.
Uncontrolled boost increase requires that it be controlled, fuel mixture curve altered and timing variables taking into account as based on boost pressure and rpm.
If as part of your installation there is nothing addressing any of these issues the question of tuning is a moot point.
Unless of course your definition of tuning and mine are totally different.
I just went and read the web site for HP Tuners. And the part you are missing I suspect is that they have specific applications and if your car is not one of the applications they have no value to you. I have two cars that are not on that list and it is useless to me. My much modified in-line 258 cu in six with multi-port fuel injection that was owner installed and my Saturn SC2 and that does not include my Chrysler town and country. So I guess that makes 3. My next car under construction will use a Mercury Marine motor, a Carter Thermo-quad and a Distributor with points. And will develop about 450hp and be tunable.
By the way, the lack of application on the HPTuner is probably why shops in your area will not touch it, there is nothing that is tunable and they are clueless as to what to do other than nothing.
 

Last edited by uncljohn; 11-12-2012 at 09:30 AM.
  #12  
Old 11-15-2012 | 07:21 PM
uncljohn's Avatar
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From: Peoria AZ
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And amendment to my previous post on this subject. That of "Tuners" in your area not wanting to "Tune" your car.
I am still some what under the impression that having a 3rd party " Tune" your car might very well be due to either lack of knowledge as to what it takes to do so or the inability of being able to do so.
Adding boost to a computer controlled car is more than bolting parts to it so increase the boost but to also let the engine control computer along with what ever interfaces with it to actually functionally run the engine efficiently.
There are after market devices available to "crutch" how something runs. That is in essence the computer if given the wrong information as to what is going on will start flagging errors.
The objective is to keep the computer to stop flagging errors and still functionally run the engine. Usually something like this if done fully automatically is a function of some form of a packaged kit or another than includes not only an upgrade to your computer but also sensors that functionally track the new boost measurements and alter fuel delivery algorithms along with timing ones.
If your computer is not compatible with these items or if they are not available there are aftermarket type devices that you will or should be able to purchase to do these things manual. They will do things like plug into your mmap sensor as an interface between the car wiring harness and the sensor itself that will or may do two things. 1. feed an offset or false signal to the computer so the signal will be with in the operating range expected from the sensor so an error will not be flagged and 2. feed a meter or display that you will read dynamically with an adjustment control that you will have to learn and read and then adjust so that the display device will read a predetermined number and the off set than would be appropriate to change the timing required to properly run the engine and also affect fuel delivery by varying the pulse width the the injector so it will stay on longer thus giving more fuel to the engine. The reading point might very well be the O2 sensor which is an indicator of combustion efficiency.
A blown engine has a different manifold pressure characteristic than say one does that is turbo charged.
A pressure regulator on the fuel rail will most often very fuel pressure as a function of vacuum reading.
A blown engine does not have vacuum developed so you loose that as a signal to increase fuel delivery unless there is a transducer or an adapter that can simulate the needs of increased fuel delivery by simulating a vacuum signal. A turbo charged engine will change from vacuum reading to pressure reading dynamically and that has to be dealt with separate from other signals.
There are apparently devices available to allow these types of conversions to take place that allow a driver to monitor gauges and make adjustments while driving to some extent to compensate to changes in how a blown or turbo engine runs vs what it is designed to run as but unless as purchased as a package for part of a fully automated installation there will be a driver interface that the driver will have to learn how to control and use in real time to some extent.
The bottom line is that part of the "tune" you are not going to get from a 3rd party if they don't know how to do it themselves and possibly you don't know how to ask for it with out obtaining more knowledge on how it is done or paying deep pocket prices for a fully integrated kit.
 
  #13  
Old 11-16-2012 | 03:19 AM
uncljohn's Avatar
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From: Peoria AZ
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Your original question was any help would be appreciated on tuning. From my standpoint a phone call and an internet search got me to this web site:
http://www.junkyardturbos.com/
and tuning is extensively discussed in Chapter 7 and Chapter 8. Not completely discussed but extensively. To make things run on something that is adapted to a Turbo and is already controlled via some form of engine management computer which of itself works with others already as part of your car, that computer will need some for adaptation that fools it into running the Turb application with out knowing what it is doing and flagging errors.
Chapter 7 pretty much calls out the types of problems that need to be over come and chapter 8 pretty much calls out electronic hardware that is manufactured to perform those adaptations.
So now it is up to you to learn what it is that you need to accomplish and how to go about it with hardware that provides an over ride to the existing hardware in the car, fools it into thinking everything is hunky dory in operation and giving you the adjustment capability to "Tune" the operation of the engine.
Some of the hardware identified will function with a non-adaptive which may not be the exact term, but the engine management compactor has no chip or test port adaptive add on capability and is a speed density system like the multi-port fuel injection package I used to convert an older American In Line 6 cylinder engine to full electronic control others will and can work in conjunction with your existing computer in your car. But you will have to determine what it is you need or find some one that you refer to as a "tuner" that has the knowledge and is willing to get paid some serious money I would presume to do all of this for you. And apparently you have not found that person yet.
So this appears to be a serious DIY project. Good luck and hope this helps.
 
  #14  
Old 04-02-2013 | 10:07 AM
crimsonandblue's Avatar
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 15
From: Council Bluffs
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I would agree with derf if you have to ask if there's someone who can tune perhaps should be asking yourself if this is a DIY job for you.
 
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