In February 2007 the local Saturn dealer replaced the head gasket in response to a coolant leak. Yesterday and 8000km later the coolant is again leaking onto my driveway. The dealer says the head must be porous or cracked and that I should replace it or get a used engine. Even though the collant is leaking from the gasket elevation, and the work they did is still in the warranty period they will not entertain the possibility that the cause of this leak could have anything to do with the origonal work, or another failed gasket.


When I took it in yesterday they did a coolant pressure test, and then for some reason tried to torque the head bolts....breaking the first one. If it was a porous head why try to torque the bolts?


The oil and coolant are okay, and she runs okay, so I am tempted to not do anything but top up the coolant as needed.


Is what the dealer telling me reasonable? How can they be sure if the head is porous, the gasket is improperly installed or there is a crack without removing the head? The dealer says there is a bulletin about this issue as his defense that this is the problem.


I need some advice from an expert.......please. Edited by: Icurl4

 

I think your dealer is waffling. Porosity, also known a shrinkage occurs
during the casting process. It usually happens when there is not enough
aluminum poured into the mold.

Aluminum shrinks a lot as it cools down. There is as much aluminum in
the riser, a part of the mold above the head, as there is in the head itself.
The riser is cut off after molding but it is there to keep a supply of
aluminum under pressure to the head as the mold cools down. The mold
is cooled by a liquid at a specific rate to keep the outside from hardening
off while the center is still liquid.

If there is a lack of pressure or the cooling isn't just right, the outside of
the head will solidify while the inside is molten. Then as the inside
begins to solidify, it shrinks. This causes the aluminum inside to take on
a spongy texture as it pulls itself apart during the shrinking. That makes
it porous. It doesn't become porous 7 years later. Thats bogus.

It could crack, but the dealer would have to remove the head and
magnaflux it to see. The dealer should remove the head and if the
problem is theirs, then he should fix it for free. However, if he removes
the head and finds a crack, are you willing to pay for the repair?

 

The dealer showed me a bulletin from GM, I think from 2002/2003 stating that some heads may be porous, and that is what they are using to justify their position.


I asked to see inspection records for the head when it was removed in Feb and they are not able to find them, and have suggested that it mayhave only beenvisually inspected by the tech. I think the head should have been inspected by magnuflux or dye pen or x-ray.


At my insistence they are willing to discuss the situation with the district service manager, albeit I am not overly confident that this will change their position. They have also warned me that this may take a week or so given the holiday season.


I offerred to pay for a new head if required, inspection of the existing head once removed, and reassembly if the head is cracked, but they would have to pay for reassembly if the gasket was the problem, and either way they would have to pay for taking the head off. They declined.


I had asked them for the DSM's contact information but they would not provide it. I called GM and they said the dealer must provide it when requested, so GM gave them a call, and then the dealer called me saying that they would provide his first name and pass anything I wanted to him but in no way would they give me his contact information. Is this crazy or what?


I have owned this car since new, kept it well serviced by various dealers in different cities as we have moved and never had any complaints. I would have just kept driving the car with what I consider to be a minor leak if I hadn't considered it to be a warranty item, but given the fact they have broken one of the head bolts that option seems to have been taken away. I asked them to investigate a coolant leak....in writing....and they broke a head bolt.


Edited by: Icurl4

 

Did they remove the broken bolt and replace it? They owe you that at least.
If they have to remove the head and put in a new gasket to replace the
broken bolt, they still owe you that.

 

</>They have told me that the car can be driven just fine with one bolt missing.........maybe I'm wrong but shouldn't all the bolts be in place otherwise why have them in the first place....so I have decided to leave the car there until this is resolved or until someone else can assure me that driving with the missing bolt is okay.


In this lies my problem. I will not drive the car home, and they don't know when they will have an opportunity to review the file with the district service manager. Meanwhile my wife has gone from a 20minute drive to a 45 minute bus ride to work and back. Not so happy.


How long is a reasonable time to wait, and what can I do anyways?


Does anyone have a suggestion, I feel really helpless? Edited by: Icurl4

 

One bolt missing, I don't think so. Do you have a local TV station with a
"consumer advocate" or "investigative reporter". This might be your next
step.

One question, did they really break a bolt or did they pull the threads out of
the block? Those bolts don't break easily, but aluminum threads however...Edited by: keith

 

They didn't specify if the bolt broke or the threads stripped.


I called them this morning and they still haven't done anything to contact the district service manager. They say they'll try today, but that lots of people are still on holidays and that it may be a few weeks till he comes around to review the file. Friday will be two weeks since I first contacted them. If I haven't had a timeframe for the review established by then I will go the route of the local newspapers complaint columnist.





My wife is now riding the bus to work....not too happy, and you know what they say....happy wife = happy life, so I guess this situation isn't very good for me either.


Edited by: Icurl4

 

</>Good News, after two weeks of the car sitting at the dealership they offerred to remove the head at their expense so that we could see what the real problem is. We had the head inspected, no cracks but slightly warped at the corner where the leak was evident in February and evident recently. So we agreed that this has always been the problem, and that they should have checked this and hence machined it in February. So they are going to do the repair for free except the $96 for machining which is fair as I would have paid this in February if they had actually inspected the head.


I am one happy guy.





Edited by: Icurl4

 

OK. Did they ever explain whether it was the threads that pulled out or the
bolt broke?

 

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The service manager is new this week.......and was formerly a tech, unlike the guy the dealer has demoted. He says the bolt broke and that the threads didn't strip.


I am unceratin if they used new bolts in February as they didn't show-up on the invoice but perhaps they are packaged with the gasket??? Otherwise reusing them may have been part of the problem as they were probably torqued to yield.


Late yesterday I even received a call from GM Canada to say sorry for how long this took and to make sure I am satisfied. great, but then they blamed the now demoted service manager.....I have little respect for a company that so easily assigns blame to an employee when speaking to the customer.






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