Saturn S Series Sedan SL, SL1, and SL2

99 Saturn SL2

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  #21  
Old 07-31-2010 | 12:16 AM
uncljohn's Avatar
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O.K., Itsa, recognise the concern. We or I are not there to touch, feel or measure. The question we ask has to be answered. As asked too. Example what was the fuel pressure:
Answer: Key on 60#, try to start 50#. Now at the moment don't know what it should be, would have to look it up, BUT it sounds like it is about right. Based on this, why was the fuel pump removed and re-installed. This does not make any sense
and what was the presure reading after it was removed and installed.
Now to shift gears.
You listed a whole bunch of parts. Sorry to be honest. Throwing parts at something is not a logical approach to things. I am **** that way. So this is leading to why do you think it is an electrical problem? Because throwing parts at it did not fix it? Or did you or some one actually pull a plug wire loose from a plug and watch to see if a spark was generated or not. Now to put it bluntly, does any one know how to do that? If so was it done? and what was the result?
Also did you or anyone else actually try to buy a manual on how to fix this thing or are you just guessing at it.
I am not trying to pick on you. I think I am pretty good at this. I would not touch this car with out a manual.
Do you have one?
 
  #22  
Old 07-31-2010 | 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by uncljohn
O.K., Itsa, recognise the concern. We or I are not there to touch, feel or measure. The question we ask has to be answered. As asked too. Example what was the fuel pressure:
Answer: Key on 60#, try to start 50#. Now at the moment don't know what it should be, would have to look it up, BUT it sounds like it is about right. Based on this, why was the fuel pump removed and re-installed. This does not make any sense
and what was the presure reading after it was removed and installed.
Now to shift gears.
You listed a whole bunch of parts. Sorry to be honest. Throwing parts at something is not a logical approach to things. I am **** that way. So this is leading to why do you think it is an electrical problem? Because throwing parts at it did not fix it? Or did you or some one actually pull a plug wire loose from a plug and watch to see if a spark was generated or not. Now to put it bluntly, does any one know how to do that? If so was it done? and what was the result?
Also did you or anyone else actually try to buy a manual on how to fix this thing or are you just guessing at it.
I am not trying to pick on you. I think I am pretty good at this. I would not touch this car with out a manual.
Do you have one?

I am not the one working on the car. The fuel pump was never taken off. And how he knows there is no spark now I am not sure, will have to ask him tomorrow. But he does know how to check for spark, so I am sure he has. I'm not sure if he has the manual or not, I just know that I have gotten on here times before and gotten help that solved the problems so I came back hoping for the same. All I know to say is the car started hesistating some, then really bad, then started dieing, now won't start at all. Some of the parts he replaced were some of the suggestions I had gotten from here and another website. Thanks
 
  #23  
Old 07-31-2010 | 08:48 AM
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O.K., been there done that.
Lemme tell a story. I'm good for that. I ramble.
A number of years ago I bought a van fm a junk yard. Don't remember how old, 300,000 miles and a piece of crap, but it ran. Paid $500.00 for it. I needed the car. Couldn't afford something else at the time. Started taking care of stuff and using it. 7000 more or less trouble free miles and $700.00 in parts later it quit running. Basic condition at the time, Not running, oil consumption about 1 quart every two tanks of gas, front main seal leaked like a sieve, windshield broken, needed paint but more or less a functional entity, all fixable to me and worth it as long as it ran.
2 weeks of frustration later, not running. In the mean time some one I knew wanted to buy the van, husband is a mechanic, he can fix it. I told her she did not want this car. I won't go there, don't have to, finally realised I now could afford to buy something better, did not have to figure out why it would not run. Sold it for $500.00 and walked away.
1 year later I find out I had knocked a connector loose in the wiring harness. I won't discount the number of parts that were replaced not fixing it before that was discovered, including parts I had already replaced.
I also find out engine blew, mad because I did not mention oil mileage. I didn't, it had 300,000 miles on it and oil dripped off the engine and front wheel housing. I bought it that way and drove it that way. I also checked the oil and added it. Cheaper than fixing it until I got to it.
The point, other than entertaining me to write this.
I can screw up a car cheaper than most people.
And if you are replacing parts based on incomplete information and or skills, you are going to get different opinions what is wrong.
Need some kind of supporting facts to help.
What is fuel pressure now? Is it still there? Apparently it was measured at some point in time, does todays measurement still indicate that fuel pressure has not changed.
The car needs 3 things to run, air, fuel and spark.
Fuel pressure indicates that fuel is there, doesn't prove it because it has to get by the injectors, just indicates it can.
Is there spark, yes or no? And why, did some one actually see the spark when wire was pulled. If yes, than it does not prove the spark actually got through the spark plug, but it is an almost safe bet it can.
If it is there, that leaves air.
Can it get to engine? Sounds silly of course it can. Unless some one dropped a shop rag into the air intake cleaining it. Probability = remote. Also silly, but it has happend. Or discovered a large vacuum line missing from the intake manifold leaving a big hole to by pass the throttle body. See other threads, this venue.
O.K., we, I or some one else needs to follow through with information recieved. You have to supply it.
And the logic behind it has to be some what accurate or a question is going to be asked.
Sorry no magic, can't see touch or feel.
Or Frankly, exactly trust the source due to variables that exist doing stuff this way.
 
  #24  
Old 07-31-2010 | 12:05 PM
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fuel pressure seems to be in spec
sorry but no spark + no fuel getting through injectors sounds like cps.
Have pops measure the resistance across the cps in there and the replacement one.

Maybe a cps wiring harness /wiring issue to the pcm
maybe a blown IGN fuse (no I do not remember what is on what circuit)

if there is no good cps signal to the pcm it is designed to kill the injector pulses since the pcm does not know where the crankshaft is in its rotation and therefore does not want the car to fire when it has no clue where the pistons are in their travel....
 

Last edited by derf; 08-01-2010 at 11:48 AM.
  #25  
Old 08-01-2010 | 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by derf
fuel pressure seems to be in spec
sorry but no spark + no fuel getting through injectors sounds like cps.
Have pops measure the resistance across the cps in there and the replacement one.

Maybe a cps wiring harness /wiring issue to the pcm
maybe a blown IGN fuse (no I do not remember what is on what circuit)

if there is no good cps signal to the pcm it is designed to kill the injector pulses since the pcm does not know where the crankshaft is in its rotation and therefore does not want the car to fire when it has no clue where the pistons are in their travel....

he is going to check this out as soon as he gets a chance, will probably be tomorrow tho because the truck he loaned me to drive the ignition switch locked up and he's gotta replace that today. I will let you know what he finds out. Thanks.
 

Last edited by derf; 08-01-2010 at 11:48 AM.
  #26  
Old 08-21-2010 | 03:58 PM
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My car is still not working! It won't start at all.
 
  #27  
Old 08-21-2010 | 04:52 PM
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and you haven't told us any update or new information or if dad's done anything else so we have no way to give you more input until you do..............
 
  #28  
Old 09-12-2010 | 03:41 PM
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So my dad cleaned the connectors to the CPS. And my car will now start again but it's running like before. High Idle, dies when put into gear or when letting off the gas. He said the shoe on timing chain is worn out but it has not jumped time but there is slack in the chain. is this enough to cause problems? also where might be any vaccuum leaks?
 
  #29  
Old 09-17-2010 | 01:59 AM
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running good cold and crappy hot, bad fuel mileage, and hesitations sound like O2 sensor to me.. yours has 2, check the one right off the motor, and the one underneath the car.. the one under it is a 4 wire.. its heated and is better for emissions.. the one on my Jeep went bad back in 04 when my aunt owned it.. it was $59 from the dealer..

is the thing throwing any codes?? it almost has to be.. the lil wrench and service light or SES light?? anything on the dash lit up?? and 60# of fuel seems a bit high, but ill check my service manual when i get home..

im just gonna throw this out there too... on my Jeep, i will run with out the belt at the drag strip, this way i can eliminate all the drag from the pulleys of the alt, A/C, and pwr steering.. now, i run two optimas.. if they get below 13volts, my MSD ignition box gets pissed off.. no data logging, misfires, cant spray the nitrous, and generally wont pull 14s in the 1/4.. when fully charged, its a beast.. point being, is the alt, and batt good?? just a reference, 12.0 volts is a completely dead battery..
 

Last edited by Dual_Cam_SaturnSL2; 09-17-2010 at 02:01 AM.
  #30  
Old 10-04-2010 | 04:03 PM
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the battery is fine. He did find a major vacuum leak and fixed that, and replaced the ignition pulley or something like that. He is thinking maybe alternator or Catylic convertor now? He is also going to check those two o2 sensors. I wish I could afford to take this car to a Saturn Shop but I can not. He does say that the car runs perfect while it's just setting and idiling. It's when he goes to drive it that it starts doing odd things.
 



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