Well today I replaced the oxygen sensor. See my other post on lose power, bucking, kicking, rough idle. I didn't get up the road more than a mile and the car started acting up. So itwasn't the oxygensensor. Probably would have needed that next anyways. Question, is there a fuel screen in the 2001 saturn SL1 model? I am thinking the problem may lie in the gas tank. I figure I would check this first before spending $400.00 in new fuel injectors. Is there any articles out on the internet that explains in detail how to replace the fuel injectors? and/or if there is a screen in the gas tank any instructions on how to perform the operation? Thanks for your help - Jim

 

Have you checked for a faulty engine coolant temperature sensor (ECTS)?


http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24003


http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37884


The fuel filter is the only place for screening out debris; as long as fuel can spray out the fuel rail from the schrader valve when testing for a short spray then the fuel pump and pressure is ok. If the coolant sensor isn't the fix there may be a sticky EGR valve staying open allowing exhaust into the intake manifold at the wrong time. Try disconnecting the electrical connector and drive; if the rough engine goes away its the EGR valve that may need cleaning.

 

Hi Ducky,


Thank you for the information. I shall start with the EGR Valve and see how that goes. If that doesn't solve it, onto the ECTS I go. I will be sure to update you and everyone else that may be interested in the outcome of my car gaggingsymptoms.


As far as the fuel situation, I was just wondering if the 2001 saturn SL1 had a fuel screen in the gas tank that could possibly get clogged? Also how would I go about checking the fuel injectors to give them a quick spray? Are there any posts like the one you gave me for the ECTS? Thanks again for all your help.Your helpis truly appreciated.


as long as fuel can spray out the fuel rail from the schrader valve when testing for a short spray then the fuel pump and pressure is ok

 

Question - where would I locate the EGR valve in relation to the ECTS? I located the ECTS unit however it is dark and rainy here in Connecticut and did not want to get soaked trying to locate it so I took a picture. Thank you - Jim


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/DSC0567 0.jpg

 

I believe the EGR valve is rightbehindthe slotted bracket in the middle of the picture. Go to http://rockauto.comfor parts pictures, they're very good and their prices seem reasonable too. As to the fuel valve, it should be on the fuel rail that feeds the injectors. The schrader valve is exactly the same valve on your wheels and should be capped. Just remove the cap, leave the ignition key in the ON/RUN position, cover the valve with a rag to catch the overspray and depress the valve with your fingertip or something. The healthy spray of gas is assurance of fuel pressure availability to the injectors. The pressure will bleed off very quickly due to a safety feature; if the engine isn't turning then the fuel pump won't run but the ON position will allow the pump to run for 2-seconds then shuts off until the engine is started.


As I stated before, no fuel screen is mounted, just the fuel filter. Replacement is usually at 100k miles. Edited by: ducky

 

Hi Ducky,


Ok, it is so much better when it is a new day with no rain coming down. Good grief, the thing is right in front of my face LOL So loosening the two bolts on the EGR will enable me to get to the neccessary parts to clean? Never took one apart on a Saturn soI figure I would ask before parts go flying. I checked the schrader valve and a healthy dose of gas spray came out. So I can check that off the list. Thank you for clarifying about no fuel screen in the tank. That eliminates that problem On my 2001 saturn SL1 (picture enclosed) the black and yellow wire going into the side of the block is my ECTS correct?


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/2wireye llowblack.jpg


The schrader valve is exactly the same valve on your wheels and should be capped. Just remove the cap, leave the ignition key in the ON/RUN position, cover the valve with a rag to catch the overspray and depress the valve with your fingertip or something. The healthy spray of gas is assurance of fuel pressure availability to the injectors





http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/valve.j pg





Any tips on deciding when and if the EGR should be replaced instead of cleaned? I will tackle this first and see how the car runs. Then if this doesn't solve the local crisis, I will move onto the ECTS. I read something about getting a brass ECTS from the Saturn dealer is the proper way to go? Thank you for all your technical support. - Jim

 

Not being familiar with the S-series cars I can't tell from the excellent pictures. Have you tried the two links from my first post? They take you to the Saturnfans.com site's How-to library for all the pictures, info, procedures necessary. The ects is, I believe in the back of the engine block facing the firewall, the lower of two temperature sensors. The top one is only a single pin/single wire sensor that goes to your temperature gauge. The lower sensor is the two-wire coolant sensor feeding the ECM data that's prone to cracking from poor design and fouls up engine running, cooling fan operation,poor gas mileage, and a host of other symptoms. You can buy the sensor anywhere as long as the replacement is brass only. Don't buy another resin tipped one, only the brass one that most auto stores should have, not necessarily Saturn.


Sorry to carry on but there's a quick way to check EGR valve operation interfering with the engine performance; just remove the electrical connector while the engine is idling; as long as the disconnected EGR valve doesn't change the idle speed at all, and it should never change idle speed, go drive normally. Any positive change in engine performance indicates that the EGR valve is faulty. It can be removed with no parts flying off but the EGR valve gasket may tear but since it is located near the exhaust manifold the gasket may be reuseable otherwise buy a replacement. The EGR valve has a spring loaded pintle valve that opens to allow exhaust gas into the intake manifold for emissions purposes. The valve becomes gummed up, carbon exhaust deposit keeps the valve partially open and the shaft has deposits that prevent free movement for sliding open/close. Anything you can do to free the valve/shaft of deposits may prolong the longevity of this EGR valve otherwise replacement is the only option.

 

7-6-07 update. Well, I replaced the ECTS. Come to find out Saturn actually must of listened to the Saturn owners because there is already a nice brass ECTS in the 2001 SL1 Saturns. Not sure if they became wise and did that to all model Saturns but a good move. I am enclosing some pictures foreveryone to view. I also took off the EGR and look in the hole on the base. Looks relatively clean and the spring loaded pintle valve moves up and down nice and freely. I replaced the gasket and reinstalled. Sad to say niether did a thing for my rough idle. I took it for a long test drive and did not notice any hesitation, bucking or kicking but still idles rough while in park or sitting at a light.(idles@ 400rpm at a light, 500rpm while in park)Before returning home, I unhooked the EGR valve to make sure I wasn't missing anything. plugged in or not I get the same symptoms. So, back to square one. Now I have a new gas filter, wires, plugs, oxygen sensor, ECTS, and an EGR that moves freely. Note on the ECTS- it sits on the right side of the block facing the battery tray. There are two wires ( on mine they are black and yellow )(see pics below)


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/2wireye llowblack.jpg


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/DSC0568 8.jpg


Here is a beautiful shot of my EGR lol


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/DSC0569 5.jpg


here is a pic of my old ECTS


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...tobank/DSC0569 7.jpg


Well, the only other thing I could think of is abad fuel injector? Any other ideas please feel free to add to this post. I will eventually get to the bottom of it. I guess my question is, what else can make a 2001 Saturn SL1 idle so rough? Thanks again ducky for all your help.

 

Nice spare temperature sensor!? I had to compare yours with the Saturnfans side-by-side pictures to tell which was which. There wasn't any mention of lower idling, 400-500 rpm, as this isn't the correct idle at all but more like 800 rpm. The low idling may be due to several items, the first is the idle air control valve (IACV). The sole job of the IACV is to adjust for idle speed in all situations such as when the a/c places a load on the engine, cold start-ups, deceleration from speed with the throttle closed. All taken care of by the IACV that can also be sticking as there are two precision servo motors within to control extending and retracting the idle bypass port that actually controls idling speed. It on the throttle body and cleaning should be done only with electrical contact cleaner. This valve won't move freely as its tied to two servo motors and may bind if forcing it to open or close. If the idle speed was ever tampered with by anyone then there's a procedure to plug the bypass port of the IACV valve while readjusting the throttle stop screw for 400-500 rpm. Unblocking the bypass port should allow some more air into the throttle body raising the idle speed to 800 rpm.

 

Hi ducky,


Not quite sure what you mean with your statement. Is that a good or bad thing? lol The unit is in good shape with no cracks or deformities. I'll mail it to the first person that wants it[img]smileys/smiley1.gif[/img]


Nice spare temperature sensor!? I had to compare yours with the Saturnfans side-by-side pictures to tell which was which.[img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]


idle air control valve (IACV)


It's on the throttle body and cleaning should be done only with electrical contact clean.


The only people that ever touched my car was Saturn technicans. mainly to do oil changes in the winter time. So if anyone was playing doctor on my car it would have been them.


there's a procedure to plug the bypass port of the IACV valve while readjusting the throttle stop screw for 400-500 rpm. Unblocking the bypass port should allow some more air into the throttle body raising the idle speed to 800 rpm.


I guess the first step is to use electrical contact cleaner. Then if that doesn't do the job, then I will have tounblock the IACV. (How would I know if theyput a"block" on my bypass porton the IACV.May this have something to do with my rough idling? Thinking back there has been several occasions where I would start the car and the rpm's would be well over 1000. Probably closer to 1200.Woul thisbe considered a stuck IACV?I would put it into gear and go run my errands, come home and be done for the night. The next morning the car starts up and it idles fine.