Race car build
#1
06-03-2022 | 03:18 PM
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Race car build
Hello everyone. I recently got a 2001 Saturn SL on trade a couple weeks ago and I’m continuing the race car build. So yesterday I was taking the windshield wiper lever and turn signal levers off of the steering column and today it won’t start. It just keeps rolling over. Mind you it ran the day before just fine. I’m thinking since I just smashed it off with a hammer it messed with the security system? I’m not sure. If anyone knows how I can check that let me know or if you know a way to bypass or eliminate the security let me know. TIA
#2
06-04-2022 | 03:47 PM
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From: Slightly off center
Follow the proper procedures and remove the steering wheel and airbag to remove the multifunction switch if you don't want wipers and turn signals.
In 17 years as mod I have never seen anyone delete functions from a Saturn with a hammer.
Since it cranks, the connection from the ignition switch to the starter is still intact. However, the connection from the ignition switch to the BCM may have gotten broken, which hoses the security system
. What is the status of the security light when you are cranking the vehicle and what is the status of the security light when The car is at rest?
You may have also damaged the sensor inside the ignition switch which senses the presence of the correct key.
The security system is built into the BCM and is not a standalone component. There are things out on the market that claim to bypass the security system on these cars. Truth be told they do not bypass these systems, they simply lie to the systems to make it look like the key is always there. That may be enough for your use.
I recommend that you do not throw parts at it as it will come back to haunt you later. Troubleshoot it properly and put the freaking hammer away.
If you're going to bypass the ignition switch and put in a push button start anyway, Maybe you do not need to replace the ignition cylinder and the ignition switch but you at least need to access the wiring that leads to and from it. So buying a replacement switch may not be necessary unless the actual junction of the wiring is damaged. The bypass kits explain what they do to bypass the system so it is time for some reading if that is your approach.
Personally I would get the vehicle running again as it will be much easier to work on unless this is a priority and getting it running through a bypass is how you will address it.
If you didn't want a turn signal and wiper stalk You could have simply just not used them. Yes they add weight, but if you are building a race car, I would think you would rip the entire dash off and figure out what wiring is critical and what is not and hack 8 lb of useless harness wiring out of the vehicle to remove weight.
Is the roll cage in yet?
No, I do not race Saturn's but I have worked with several people that do. They go all out to reduce the weight of the car and they don't use hammers. They take things apart.
In 17 years as mod I have never seen anyone delete functions from a Saturn with a hammer.
Since it cranks, the connection from the ignition switch to the starter is still intact. However, the connection from the ignition switch to the BCM may have gotten broken, which hoses the security system
. What is the status of the security light when you are cranking the vehicle and what is the status of the security light when The car is at rest?
You may have also damaged the sensor inside the ignition switch which senses the presence of the correct key.
The security system is built into the BCM and is not a standalone component. There are things out on the market that claim to bypass the security system on these cars. Truth be told they do not bypass these systems, they simply lie to the systems to make it look like the key is always there. That may be enough for your use.
I recommend that you do not throw parts at it as it will come back to haunt you later. Troubleshoot it properly and put the freaking hammer away.
If you're going to bypass the ignition switch and put in a push button start anyway, Maybe you do not need to replace the ignition cylinder and the ignition switch but you at least need to access the wiring that leads to and from it. So buying a replacement switch may not be necessary unless the actual junction of the wiring is damaged. The bypass kits explain what they do to bypass the system so it is time for some reading if that is your approach.
Personally I would get the vehicle running again as it will be much easier to work on unless this is a priority and getting it running through a bypass is how you will address it.
If you didn't want a turn signal and wiper stalk You could have simply just not used them. Yes they add weight, but if you are building a race car, I would think you would rip the entire dash off and figure out what wiring is critical and what is not and hack 8 lb of useless harness wiring out of the vehicle to remove weight.
Is the roll cage in yet?
No, I do not race Saturn's but I have worked with several people that do. They go all out to reduce the weight of the car and they don't use hammers. They take things apart.
#3
06-04-2022 | 04:49 PM
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From: Slightly off center
Also, not sure why you would build an SOHC race car instead of a DOHC Saturn race car. That makes no sense horsepower wise, especially if you are running stock class. You are kissing off 15 to 25 horsepower from the start.
If it is an auto trans, just throw it away now so you don't have to clean up the mess later. I can't remember if an SL had an auto trans as an option.
It may actually be possible to jettison the BCM but I am not sure because the default state of the fuel injectors is inhibited and is only uninhibited by repeated successful security checks by the BCM checking the ignition and relaying to the PCM that the key is the correct key. I'm not sure you can cut the BCM out of the equation because then there is no way to tell the PCM that everything is fine security wise, unless it is a simple high low voltage state circuit, in which case you probably just feed it 5 volts and it doesn't give a crap.
There are many many many people that race DOHCs as circle track cars. They seem too like the low gearing and the cars do not weigh much. I would look for a website devoted to said Saturn race car builds as you will likely learn more in a day from them than you will from here in a month.
I'm not trying to chase you, I'm actually trying to help you. You are welcome to stay and ask questions. Just know that none of us on this forum have built a race car from a Saturn S series, and I believe I am the closest having helped several folks behind the scenes, which is exceptionally difficult when people are modifying the vehicles and you cannot see the wiring or anything else and they ask you why it doesn't run, won't start, or craps out after 20 mi on the track. But I enjoy chasing down such things for reasons I do not understand.
We are here if you need us. Passing it forward is the only way the knowledge survives
If it is an auto trans, just throw it away now so you don't have to clean up the mess later. I can't remember if an SL had an auto trans as an option.
It may actually be possible to jettison the BCM but I am not sure because the default state of the fuel injectors is inhibited and is only uninhibited by repeated successful security checks by the BCM checking the ignition and relaying to the PCM that the key is the correct key. I'm not sure you can cut the BCM out of the equation because then there is no way to tell the PCM that everything is fine security wise, unless it is a simple high low voltage state circuit, in which case you probably just feed it 5 volts and it doesn't give a crap.
There are many many many people that race DOHCs as circle track cars. They seem too like the low gearing and the cars do not weigh much. I would look for a website devoted to said Saturn race car builds as you will likely learn more in a day from them than you will from here in a month.
I'm not trying to chase you, I'm actually trying to help you. You are welcome to stay and ask questions. Just know that none of us on this forum have built a race car from a Saturn S series, and I believe I am the closest having helped several folks behind the scenes, which is exceptionally difficult when people are modifying the vehicles and you cannot see the wiring or anything else and they ask you why it doesn't run, won't start, or craps out after 20 mi on the track. But I enjoy chasing down such things for reasons I do not understand.
We are here if you need us. Passing it forward is the only way the knowledge survives
#4
06-04-2022 | 11:55 PM
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2
Also, not sure why you would build an SOHC race car instead of a DOHC Saturn race car. That makes no sense horsepower wise, especially if you are running stock class. You are kissing off 15 to 25 horsepower from the start.
If it is an auto trans, just throw it away now so you don't have to clean up the mess later. I can't remember if an SL had an auto trans as an option.
It may actually be possible to jettison the BCM but I am not sure because the default state of the fuel injectors is inhibited and is only uninhibited by repeated successful security checks by the BCM checking the ignition and relaying to the PCM that the key is the correct key. I'm not sure you can cut the BCM out of the equation because then there is no way to tell the PCM that everything is fine security wise, unless it is a simple high low voltage state circuit, in which case you probably just feed it 5 volts and it doesn't give a crap.
There are many many many people that race DOHCs as circle track cars. They seem too like the low gearing and the cars do not weigh much. I would look for a website devoted to said Saturn race car builds as you will likely learn more in a day from them than you will from here in a month
I'm not trying to chase you, I'm actually trying to help you.You are welcome to stay and ask questions. Just know that none of us on this forum have built a race car from a Saturn S series, and I believe I am the closest having helped several folks behind the scenes, which is exceptionally difficult when people are modifying the vehicles and you cannot see the wiring or anything else and they ask you why it doesn't run, won't start, or craps out after 20 mi on the track. But I enjoy chasing down such things for reasons I do not understand.
We are here if you need us. Passing it forward is the only way the knowledge survives
If it is an auto trans, just throw it away now so you don't have to clean up the mess later. I can't remember if an SL had an auto trans as an option.
It may actually be possible to jettison the BCM but I am not sure because the default state of the fuel injectors is inhibited and is only uninhibited by repeated successful security checks by the BCM checking the ignition and relaying to the PCM that the key is the correct key. I'm not sure you can cut the BCM out of the equation because then there is no way to tell the PCM that everything is fine security wise, unless it is a simple high low voltage state circuit, in which case you probably just feed it 5 volts and it doesn't give a crap.
There are many many many people that race DOHCs as circle track cars. They seem too like the low gearing and the cars do not weigh much. I would look for a website devoted to said Saturn race car builds as you will likely learn more in a day from them than you will from here in a month
I'm not trying to chase you, I'm actually trying to help you.You are welcome to stay and ask questions. Just know that none of us on this forum have built a race car from a Saturn S series, and I believe I am the closest having helped several folks behind the scenes, which is exceptionally difficult when people are modifying the vehicles and you cannot see the wiring or anything else and they ask you why it doesn't run, won't start, or craps out after 20 mi on the track. But I enjoy chasing down such things for reasons I do not understand.
We are here if you need us. Passing it forward is the only way the knowledge survives
#5
06-05-2022 | 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,011
From: Slightly off center
Security will not enable the injectors until the BCM tells the PCM to do so. This will not happen if the sensor in the ignition switch is not sensing the correct key or not sensing anything at all because it is wrecked.
So if the dash is gone, that would mean that you can't see the security light, I can you. That will make it more of a challenge. I would think the previous race car owners would have bypassed the system and made it push button start but if the key is still needed to start the vehicle, maybe not. How they raced without a detachable wheel is beyond me.
You could try a security reset sequence, you'll just be doing it blind and by time. Look up passlock II relearn sequence and follow the directions to the letter with regards to leaving key in, time waiting in between steps, etc. I would wait like 13 minutes where it says 10:00 since you can't see the light.
Also, you may have removed all of the wiring within the steering column, but that does not necessarily mean there is not a circuit board or something similar that got damaged. You're going to have to pull the steering wheel anyway to put on a detachable one so I would say take apart the rest of the steering column. They're just plastic panels though you probably already know that and it may already be apart.
Make sure you disconnect the battery before messing with the steering wheel. Then wait another half hour as most airbag control systems have an onboard battery on their control unit to power the airbag system in case of an impact after the initial one that may not have triggered the airbags.
I don't know if the 99 dash is compatible with the 99 but that would at least give you a view of the security light if it does work.
Is the OBD2 port still hooked up? You might try reading it for codes. I don't know that tripped security generates a code but it can't hurt. It will also give you an idea of what systems The previous owners have effed with as the PCM should throw errors along with the BCM. Most of the BCM errors won't matter. Some of the PCM errors won't matter either, but some might. Are you running stock class?
So if the dash is gone, that would mean that you can't see the security light, I can you. That will make it more of a challenge. I would think the previous race car owners would have bypassed the system and made it push button start but if the key is still needed to start the vehicle, maybe not. How they raced without a detachable wheel is beyond me.
You could try a security reset sequence, you'll just be doing it blind and by time. Look up passlock II relearn sequence and follow the directions to the letter with regards to leaving key in, time waiting in between steps, etc. I would wait like 13 minutes where it says 10:00 since you can't see the light.
Also, you may have removed all of the wiring within the steering column, but that does not necessarily mean there is not a circuit board or something similar that got damaged. You're going to have to pull the steering wheel anyway to put on a detachable one so I would say take apart the rest of the steering column. They're just plastic panels though you probably already know that and it may already be apart.
Make sure you disconnect the battery before messing with the steering wheel. Then wait another half hour as most airbag control systems have an onboard battery on their control unit to power the airbag system in case of an impact after the initial one that may not have triggered the airbags.
I don't know if the 99 dash is compatible with the 99 but that would at least give you a view of the security light if it does work.
Is the OBD2 port still hooked up? You might try reading it for codes. I don't know that tripped security generates a code but it can't hurt. It will also give you an idea of what systems The previous owners have effed with as the PCM should throw errors along with the BCM. Most of the BCM errors won't matter. Some of the PCM errors won't matter either, but some might. Are you running stock class?
Last edited by derf; 06-05-2022 at 12:19 PM.
#6
06-05-2022 | 08:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,587
From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Race cars need to be simple. Toggle switch for run/stop, push button start. I have no idea how to get around security on an S car. But I would make sure the fuel pump has power with the ignition on. It ran yesterday and the only thing you changed was in the steering column area. I would want a stand alone ignition/fuel control, what ever the sanctioning body allows in the class you intend to run. Maybe even Saturn controls before OBD2 and the bcm.
#7
06-06-2022 | 07:35 AM
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Posts: 11,011
From: Slightly off center
Most people used to run the first generation coops and sedans, pre 96. BCM's didn't come in till 99 in the S cars. So part of this is of course based on the choice of vehicle. But I certainly agree with your statement about simplicity. Figure out what the PCM wants to see to let the fuel injectors run and give it to it.
This has all been done to S cars many a time before. I'm sure the information is out there.
This has all been done to S cars many a time before. I'm sure the information is out there.
#8
06-06-2022 | 08:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,011
From: Slightly off center
Come to think of it, I don't know if anyone has tried to race a third generation S car with a BCM and it, and therefore the passlock 2 security.
Not saying it can't be done, simply saying I personally do not know of a gen 3 S car that has been converted for racing.
Not saying it can't be done, simply saying I personally do not know of a gen 3 S car that has been converted for racing.
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